Regions of Southeast Asia most deserving of a dedicated TL?

Which region most deserves a TL?

  • Western Mainland (Upper and Lower Burma, Arakan, the Shan states)

    Votes: 25 32.5%
  • Central Mainland (Thailand, Laos, Cambodia)

    Votes: 38 49.4%
  • Eastern Mainland (Vietnam, Champa)

    Votes: 27 35.1%
  • Northern Archipelago (Sumatra, the Malay Peninsula, northern Borneo)

    Votes: 28 36.4%
  • Central Archipelago (Java, southern Borneo, Bali)

    Votes: 32 41.6%
  • Philippines

    Votes: 14 18.2%
  • Eastern Archipelago (Sulawesi, eastern Borneo, Malukus, Nusa Tenggara)

    Votes: 27 35.1%

  • Total voters
    77
The Eastern Archipelago is my personal favorite because valuable spices are grown there and the area could effect New Guinea and Australia with the right POD. Of course the whole region deserves more love.

I've always wanted to see a "Lands of Red and Gold" style timeline with a focus on island Southeast Asia. Thalassocratic urban cultures with an even greater tropical package, contemporary with the Shang, Indus or Egypt. Ancient trade routes stretching from the Pacific and Australasia to Madagascar and the Swahili coast. I would swoon!
 
The Eastern Archipelago is my personal favorite because valuable spices are grown there and the area could effect New Guinea and Australia with the right POD. Of course the whole region deserves more love.

I've always wanted to see a "Lands of Red and Gold" style timeline with a focus on island Southeast Asia. Thalassocratic urban cultures with an even greater tropical package, contemporary with the Shang, Indus or Egypt. Ancient trade routes stretching from the Pacific and Australasia to Madagascar and the Swahili coast. I would swoon!

You can do it! :D
 

Thothian

Banned
I'd say a TL with a POD that allows the Khmer Empire to survive at it's greatest OTL extent ( Laos, Cambodia, most of Thailand) up until the modern day. For greater butterflies , perhaps they also manage to annex/conquer the rest of the Malay peninsula as well as the rest of what would be modern Thailand.
 
In the poll I had voted for the Central Mainland, Eastern Mainland and Central Archipelago. I would love to see TLs on Ayuthaya dynasty, Srivijaya Empire and Majapahid Empire and their successor states. Though both Ayuthaya and Khmer Empires deserve to be wanked, wanking both at the same time is impossible, as one can grow only at the expense of the other. Same can be said about the Srivijaya and Majapahid Empires. But a Srivijaya Empire confined to the Northern Archipelago and a Majapahit Empire consisting of Central and Eastern Archipelago can be visualized. What would have happened if the Archipelago had not come under the influence of Islam and a successor state to Srivijaya and Majapahit Empire had come up covering the entire "Malay" region ie. the Archipelago plus the Malaya peninsula. If the entire region had grown into a huge copy of the present Island of Bali. Marvelous, indeed!
 
I want to see more of Burma. A TL to make it at least as successful as Thailand was OTL (not colonised, for one), but at the same time, not some stupid Burma wank where the Burmese always win and thus not taking into account the ebb and flow of empires in the region. Burma with perhaps all the land they lost to Thailand under control, with Manipur and bits of Assam/that part of India too I think are the "ideal" borders. It doesn't even have to be Bamar ethnically--I'd love to see the Mon people dominate in Burma as the Bamar did OTL. Or maybe both Mon and Bamar co-existing (despite geography probably meaning one will gain the upper hand), both surviving through colonialism.

Another thing I would love would be Lan Xang's survival or a massive Lao state in the Isan region otherwise emerge regardless. I was amazed the first time I found out the majority of Lao speakers lived in Thailand and not Laos, so surely there must be potential there. Or if the similarly-named Lan Na could survive and not be annexed by Thailand (or Burma), and more states in Southeast Asia in general, you could probably make an interesting enough story about that.

TL;DR: Trade gives incentives to convert, and once the coast is Muslim the agricultural inland is also likely to take up a syncretic (or "watered-down") Islam. In the mainland there was less trade and ports were better held by agricultural states, hence less conversion.

Which that makes me think of an idea (which I've posed a thread on in the past)--what if the St. Thomas Christians converted what is nowadays Kerala moreso than OTL, and traders from that region spread far and wide, including to Indonesia? A Javanese or Sumatran kingdom as Prester John's homeland seems to be a cool TL, especially since evidently the Church of the East at one point was active on Java.

The Eastern Archipelago is my personal favorite because valuable spices are grown there and the area could effect New Guinea and Australia with the right POD. Of course the whole region deserves more love.

I've always wanted to see a "Lands of Red and Gold" style timeline with a focus on island Southeast Asia. Thalassocratic urban cultures with an even greater tropical package, contemporary with the Shang, Indus or Egypt. Ancient trade routes stretching from the Pacific and Australasia to Madagascar and the Swahili coast. I would swoon!

North Australia, obviously, with their historic links to Indonesia. I was considering a TL (since I love the idea myself because it's obviously very cool) with a focus on the Indian Ocean (including Australia!) in that era, so there's something to come, so don't worry.
 
None of them deserve a TL, BECAUSE THEY ALL DESERVE A TL!!

Realistically if someone can pull one of those off, it would be something to see and read.
 
Still mulling about the Mongol Philippines timeline idea. The potential is enormous, and the butterflies are quite huge.
 
Still mulling about the Mongol Philippines timeline idea. The potential is enormous, and the butterflies are quite huge.

Well, as far as I recall, the Yuan weren't nearly as capable of nailing down tributaries in SEA, (or anywhere that requires sea travel as a whole). They do have tributaries there, thou, who mostly just submitted because they didn't want to deal with the taxing effort of beating the Mongols to a pulp (or wanted to gain access to the Yuan trade network). But not much the capital could really do if they decided to break ties.

Still, a Mongol Philippines is possible, just not one directly controlled or conquered by the Mongols.
 
It might be my half-Thai bias, but my bigger vote's going to be with Central Midland. I'd love to see something with the Khmer Empire or, more especially so, the Sukhothai and the Ayutthaya Kingdoms.

Another big one that isn't quite Central Midland is probably with Srivijaya. An interesting idea I saw for it is colonization of New Zealand, and I think if I make a timeline, I may use that idea.
 
Well, as far as I recall, the Yuan weren't nearly as capable of nailing down tributaries in SEA, (or anywhere that requires sea travel as a whole). They do have tributaries there, thou, who mostly just submitted because they didn't want to deal with the taxing effort of beating the Mongols to a pulp (or wanted to gain access to the Yuan trade network). But not much the capital could really do if they decided to break ties.

Still, a Mongol Philippines is possible, just not one directly controlled or conquered by the Mongols.

Well, a PoD I can think of is an invasion by accident.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
Central Islands for me, the Majaphahit are my second favorite nation that did not make it and I would love to see a TL where the Islands are strong enough to be like Japan and stay independent long enough to modernize and dominate the southern seas.
 

SRBO

Banned
I'd like to see those Moluccans colonize Australia. They are already part australian so they'd fit in
 
Well, the most basic explanation is geography. Trade-oriented states are more likely to become Muslim, while agricultural states are more likely to retain Buddhism, Hinduism, or Confucianism. To prove my point, I'll reference 1) Islam in the mainland and 2) non-Islam in the islands:
  • Champa, the most maritime-oriented realm of mainland Southeast Asia (because all ships going to or coming from China must pass the Cham coastline except for ships to/from Manila and Nagasaki) with a relative paucity of good agricultural land, was also among the few areas in the mainland where many people turned to Islam. Arakan, another coastal kingdom, also had a large Muslim population. Thailand, the most maritime-oriented of the three main kingdoms of Early Modern mainland Southeast Asia - by the early 19th century the majority of government revenues derived from trade - was also the kingdom with the closest contact to the Islamic world; King Narai emulated Persian architectural styles and even cuisine, while in 1686 Muslims in Ayutthaya launched a revolt and held out for several days against massive opposition. Sultan Ibrahim of Cambodia is well-known, of course. These are unprecedented in more agricultural Vietnam. It's also important to note that in the mainland, the main ports were held by agricultural kingdoms with a few exceptions (e.g. Ayutthaya by Thailand, Pegu by Burma, Hoi An by Vietnam).
  • In South-Central Java, conversion was slow (Islam was probably only widely present among the general population by the 1630s), involved more conquest than was the case in the more pacific, voluntary conversions of the ports, and was much more syncrestic - a "mystic synthesis," to quote the main historian of Java. For example, major Javanese kings who were proud Muslims also went on pilgrimage to speak with the Goddess of the Southern Seas! Javanese chronicles generally consider Islamization to be much less important than Majapahit's collapse, and for good reason. Javanese millenarist movements drew less on the Mahdi and much more on the prophecies of King Jayabaya, who ruled in the 12th century, while some colonial-era Javanese chronicles even blame Islam for forcing the native gods of Java to "retire into concealment" and thereby ruining Java. Bali and its Javanese offshoots, of course, never bothered to convert. Makasar in South Sulawesi, another wet rice region, also did not convert until the early 1600s.[1]
So why Islam? The reason is that beginning in the 14th century or so, Arab, Persian, and Muslim Indian (Gujarati traders, for instance, were generally Muslim even if Gujarat as a whole was not) merchants became much more common in the region. So we first have a situation where "the king is a pagan; the merchants are Moors."[2] Muslims prefer ports with Muslim facilities, and especially ports with Muslim rulers. So a Buddhist, Hindu, or animist king might decide to attract Muslims by building mosques, then by appointing qadis, and eventually we have full-on conversion as the conclusion of a gradual set of concessions to the Muslim trading community. But if an obstinate king refuses to give concessions to Muslims, those Muslims are fully willing to visit ports ruled by his more congenial competitors and, in certain cases, even militarily support him like Muslims supported Aceh against the Portuguese. So the competitively commercial nature of Archipelagic politics incentivises Islamization. By contrast, the Chinese did not care nearly as much about whether there were elements of Chinese culture in the ports they were visiting.[3] Hence Thailand to this day remains much less Chinese than Aceh is Muslim. And once the coast is Muslim, the agricultural inland becomes more likely to become Muslim (as in Java). Not only that, Islam encourages political centralization for chiefs who want to make the leap to being a king; a 1544 Portuguese report notes that before Islam, the Malukus did not have writing, laws, coins, gongs, daggers, and "all the other good things [the Malukuns] have."

TL;DR: Trade gives incentives to convert, and once the coast is Muslim the agricultural inland is also likely to take up a syncretic (or "watered-down") Islam. In the mainland there was less trade and ports were better held by agricultural states, hence less conversion.

[1] Admittedly this may have more to do with the political landscape and ideology, e.g. how South Sulawesi kings claimed divine descent less compatible with Islam.

[2] This is how a Portuguese described Brunei in 1514 but must have applied to most now-Muslim ports at some point in their history, like Aceh/Semudera in the late 13th century, Melaka in the early 15th century, or Makasar in the late 16th century.

[3] If the Chinese followed a missionary religion like Muslims, Thailand would definitely have converted in the 18th century.

Having said this it's interesting that the trade oriented states of South India never converted (although they did retain large Muslim minorities).

I've also considered it interesting how Hinduism followed the same pattern in relation to both Buddhism and Islam. In Indochina Buddhism won out as the official religion with Hinduism relegated to folk religion. In the Malay world the same largely happened except with Islam being dominant.
 
It doesn't even have to be Bamar ethnically--I'd love to see the Mon people dominate in Burma as the Bamar did OTL. Or maybe both Mon and Bamar co-existing (despite geography probably meaning one will gain the upper hand), both surviving through colonialism.
Was the Mon actually related to the people of Dvaravati in present-day Thailand?
 
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