"Io Mihailŭ, Împĕratul Românilor" - A Michael the Brave Romania Wank

I.21. Sigismund III Vasa

Zagan

Donor
Most historians consider that the chaotic events of the 17th century Europe
were triggered by the establishment of a National State in Romania.

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Sigismund III Vasa
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October 1603, Romania
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After signing the Treaty of Colomeea, Sigismund suddenly found himself on Romanian soil. Instead of leaving for Poland, he accepted Mihai's invitation to be his guest in Alba Iulia.
Sigismund now viewed Mihai in a very positive light, thinking of him as a great Romanian hero, a daring military commander and a skilled political leader, but admired him most for his uncanny ability and steeling resolve to press forward and succeed despite the meager resources under his command.
Accompanied by a delegation of the szlachta, Sigismund spent a full month in Romania, about half of that time being on the road to Alba Iulia and back with one short break in Suceava, the former Moldavian Capital of Ștefan cel Mare and another one in the German town of Bistrița.
During his stay in Romania, Sigismund (37) and Mihai (45) became very good friends and enjoyed countless hours of extremely fruitful dialogue. They even travelled in the same couch for most of the way towards Alba Iulia in order to have more time to discuss state business.
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Sigismund: "Tell me, Mihai, why were you so sure I would not invade Moldavia in August 1601?"
Mihai: "I was not. I just bluffed."
Both: [Laughter]
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************
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M: "Zygmunt..."
S: "Yes..."
M: "Do you want Constantinople?"
S: [Stupor]
M: "I will conquer it."
S: "Yes, I believe you. But why would you give it to me?"
M: "Because we are friends. And because I don't want it."
S: "You do not want Constantinople? Do you know that everybody says that you are a little strange..."
M: "You are being polite now. Everybody says that I am crazy. Don't be shy, I know everything."
S: "But I know you are not crazy. You are thinking so deep into the future that one cannot comprehend you. That's why I am asking for an explanation. And yes, of course, I want it!"
M: "Well, Zygmunt, I am building a National State here in Romania, the country of the Romanians, a country for the Romanians. The Romans of the past had a very large Empire, but the Greeks subverted it from the inside and turned it into a Greek Empire. I do not want to repeat the mistake of my forefathers. I will not incorporate Greeks into my Empire."
S: "But what about the Bulgarians or the Serbs? You are going to conquer them, aren't you?"
M: "They do not have 2000 years of history, philosophy, arts and literature. We will be able to assimilate them. But not the Greeks. Nobody has ever assimilated the Greeks, but instead the Greeks assimilated their conquerors. If the Turks were not Muslims, the Greeks would have assimilated them by now. Even so, do you know what the language of the Turkish elites in Constantinople is now? It's not Turkish, it's Greek! And we are Orthodox like them. Unfortunately."
S: "Excuse me... So, you do not like your religion?? I mean... Would you consider converting to Catholicism?"
M: "Yes of course. I would convert right now and attempt to convert my people if that were a good thing for my country. Unfortunately it is not. You know, while I am a devout Christian, I do not find it in any way important if one is an Orthodox, a Catholic or a Reformed. We are all Christians, that is the only important thing."
S: [Horror]
M: "I am first of all a Romanian. So I choose the Christian religion which is best for my people and my country right now. Later I may choose otherwise if the situation is any different. Don't get mad at me, please, let me finish. If I had any plan to conquer Poland, I would have converted to Catholicism. But obviously I have not. Since I only want to conquer Orthodox people, we have to be Orthodox like them. It is much easier to conquer a land that has the same religion as yours."
S: "So Religion is for you only a tool of the State??"
M: "Yes and no. The Christian religion is paramount. Its flavour is however subject to discussion. The fact that Christendom is disunited makes me very sad. It is however good for you."
S: [Stupor]
M: "Sorry, this time I actually wanted to shock you. I mean, it is a good thing for you, for Poland, that the Germans have many competing religions. Just imagine if they ever unite into a single centralized state!"
S: "I see. That is not a very pleasant prospect, indeed. So, after you conquer the Balkan Peninsula, well... except the Greeks, will you convert them to Catholicism?"
M: [Smiling] "Maybe. If it suits me. So, do we have a deal?"
S: "A deal?"
M: "When I drive the Turks out of Europe, you take Crimea and Constantinople and I take the Balkans."
S: [Shaking hands] "Deal. But what about the Straits?"
M: "A single power controlling the Straits is dangerous and invites enmity. If you have the Bosphorus and I have the Dardanelles, neither of us can pass through the Straits unless friendly with the other. I think it is one of the best possible scenarios for our countries and peoples to remain friends long after we are gone."
S: "I must say that I cannot help but still get bewildered by your vision of the future and your forward thinking. I think that you are the greatest strategist I have ever talked to. It is possible that if you were in my place, controlling the vast resources of Poland-Lithuania... You could have taken over most of Europe by now!"
M: "I don't think so. Do you remember the letter I sent you two years ago?"
S: "How could I not remember it? It was the strangest and boldest thing I had ever read!"
M: "I am sorry to tell you again, but your country is sitting on a powder keg."
S: "But why? We are stronger than our neighbours..."
M: "For the time being... But anyway, I was talking about the danger lurking inside. The fact that while in my country there is only one Nation, you have at least three: the Poles, the Lithuanians and the Ruthenes."
S: "So what? They are loyal to me!"
M: "Yes, but what about a hundred years from now? If you cannot make a Nation out of your peoples your country will be some time in the future at a great disadvantage. You may have time however to do something about it if you start soon enough."
S: "If you were not a King yourself, I would have hired you as an personal counsellor. Because you are the best in the entire World."
M: "If you want, I could offer you some advice, with some caveats though. What is good for Romania may only work for Poland if adapted to the specifics of your country."
S: "Yes I do. I would very much want you to describe your vision of a great future for the Commonwealth."
M: "Then we shall do that. But now let's have dinner."
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************
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S: "Now you have to keep your promise. Tell me about the Commonwealth's future."
M: "I am not an oracle, you know..."
S: "Oh yes, you are, you are!. Tell me, you promissed!"
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And Mihai talked for hours and hours, day in day out. And Sigismund would never have too much of it.
Many of Sigismund's future actions would look as if inspired by Mihai. And many of them probably were.

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Note: No spoilers here. You will have to guess which actions were inspired by Mihai when the chapter about Poland will get posted.
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Secret Treaty of Suceava
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I. Poland-Lithuania and Romania vow to destroy the Ottoman Empire.

II. Romania has at most 20 years to prepare for the eventual conquest of Ottoman Europe.

III. Poland-Lithuania and Romania will attack the Ottoman Empire together.

IV. Poland-Lithuania will annex the Crimean Peninsula (including Slovak Perekop, for which Slovakia will get a decent material compensation) and the city of Constantinople with its environs. Slovakia will be under Polish influence.

V. Romania will annex most of the Balkan Peninsula, except the lands inhabited by the Greeks. A Greek State will be created, under Romanian influence.

VI. Poland-Lithuania and Romania will assist each other in any wars that may take place, both before and after the future war with the Ottomans, with at least 10,000 armed men.

VII. Poland-Lithuania will recognize the independence of Romania and any changes in its international status immediately after being proclaimed.
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Note: This is not a spoiler. Things will not unfold exactly as planned, obviously.
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Reception in Alba Iulia
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In Alba Iulia, Sigismund and Mihai were met by cheering crowds waving Romanian and Polish flags. The Mayor read a carefully prepared speech and the Romanian Patriarch blessed everyone present. A special meeting of the Romanian Senat was quickly summoned and the orators had plenty of opportunity to show their skills, at least in the art of oratory if not in politics.
But the most important event of the state visit would prove to be the ball at which Sigismund met Mihai's beautiful adolescent daughter.
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Sigismund & Florica
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There are many books and movies about Sigismund and Florica.
However the facts are far from clear. There are three main possibilities:
1. Everything was prearranged by Mihai and Sigismund before arriving in Alba Iulia. Florica knew nothing about it. (the majority of historians seem to agree to that)
2. Sigismund knew nothing. Mihai and Florica conspired to get him on the hook. They succeeded. Rumours included about Florica's lack of innocence, to use an euphemism. (a minority of historians reported that)
3. Nothing was ever planned (or at most it was only Mihai's plan), with Florica and Sigismund genuinely falling in love with each other at first sight etc. (prefered by the novelists and film producers)
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The cold facts are that:
- Sigismund first met Florica at the ball and they danced at least seven times, far beyond the requirements of protocol.
- They spent most of the following two weeks together without any attempt to hide.
- Before leaving Alba Iulia, Sigismund asked Mihai for his daughter's hand and Mihai accepted, not before saying something really strange but correct.
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Mihai: "While it is a great honour for me and my daughter, I am not entirely sure that it is a wise thing to do."
Florica: "Father!"
Sigismund: "If I did not know you, I would have considered this an insult. Be kind and offer us another proof of your... comprehensive view of the world or whatever is on your mind."
M: "Hush, daughter! And you, Zygmunt, don't get me wrong. I am glad to offer you my daughter's hand. You may marry her. I just thought of something... These matrimonial alliances are not always good for the peace between the nations involved. After all, Sweden and Poland would not be at war today if it hadn't been for your parents marrying each other."
[Silence]
F: "You can write me off the inheritance list."
S: "There is a good point in what you've said, Mihai. I have to admit you are right again. The fact is that what every ruling family in Europe has ever done from the mists of time, marrying between themselves... is indeed wrong if there aren't clear succession laws in place."
M: "I will have the Romanian Law of Succession changed in order to make sure that no foreign ruler ever inherits the Romanian Throne. Something like: if you marry into another ruling family from another country, you and all your descendents will automatically lose any right to the Romanian Throne. Yes, something like this. I will arrange for a debate in the Senat. In the meantime, you have my blessing and please go to Doamna Stanca as well..."
S: "Of course, Mihai. Another question... Florica should become a Catholic."
M: "This is obvious. The queen of a Catholic country shall be a Catholic. No problem whatsoever. Dear Florica, the Catholics are our brothers, Christians as ourselves. Fear not, you commit no sin by worshiping God in their ways."
F (relieved): "Yes, father."
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Mihai embraced Sigismund and then kissed Florica trying to conceal a tear at the corner of his eye.

When Sigismund left Alba Iulia, he took Florica with him to Warsaw.
Sigismund married his young Romanian bride, 20 years his junior, on 30 November 1603, in the greatest Cathedral of his Capital.
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And like in a fairytale, a gorgeous 17 years old Romanian girl born in a family of small boyars in a remote corner of a small country ravaged by the Turks, became the beloved Catholic Queen of the largest country in Europe, the mighty Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania, with more than ten million subjects.
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And in less than a year, the still very young King, with no surviving male children from his first marriage, will be the proud and happy father of a healty royal boy, Mihai's grandson, the future King of the Commonwealth.​
 
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The heck?Is Sigismund nuts?Poland can into Constantinople without land border to it?

So Romania wants the entirety of the Balkans without Greece itself or just without Constantinople?
 

Zagan

Donor

Mihai's Daughter, Flora Vasa


Mihai_Viteazul_wiki_en.jpg

Painted with her father, future Emperor Mihai I of the Romanians, in 1601 when she was 14 years old.

- Born: Florica Pĕtrașcu in 1586, Wallachia
- Domnița Florica a Țĕri Românescĭ: 1593-1601 (Lady Florica of Wallachia)
- Domnița Florica a României 1601-1603: (Lady Florica of Romania)
- Flora Regina Poloniae et Lituaniae 1603-1681: (Queen Flora of Poland-Lithuania)
- Coronation: 21 December 1603, Warsaw, Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania
- Died: 4 February 1681 (94-95 years old), Warsaw, Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania
- Burial: 9 February 1681, Krakow, Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania

- House: Imperial House of Romania
- Father: Emperor Mihai I of the Romanians
- Mother: Empress Stanca
- Spouse: King Sigismund III Vasa of Poland-Lithuania
- Married: 30 November 1603, Warsaw
- Issue: 9
- Religion: Romanian Orthodox (1586-1603), Roman Catholic (1603-1681)
 
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Zagan

Donor
The heck?Is Sigismund nuts?Poland can into Constantinople without land border to it?

So Romania wants the entirety of the Balkans without Greece itself or just without Constantinople?

Romania wants the Balkan Peninsula minus Constantinople and minus Greece proper (south of Macedonia - Epirus where there are plenty of ethnic Romanians / Aromanians)

The Black Sea is supposed to be a Romanian + Polish Lake, so there will be no much trouble to get by ship from (future) Polish Crimea to (future) Polish Constantinople.
You know, Britain did not have a land border with New Zealand either!
 
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Romania wants the Balkan Peninsula minus Constantinople and minus Greece proper (south of Macedonia - Epirus where there are plenty of ethnic Romanians / Aromanians)

The Black Sea is supposed to be a Romanian + Polish Lake, so there will be no much trouble to get by ship from (future) Polish Crimea to (future) Polish Constantinople.
You know, Britain did not have a land border with New Zealand either!

That would necessitate a strong Polish navy,otherwise Constantinople would be a liability.
 

Zagan

Donor
That would necessitate a strong Polish navy,otherwise Constantinople would be a liability.

Of course.

And just to be clear: Sigismund never intended to capture it by sea! The plan was actually to have Mihai capture it by land and hand it over to him.

And no liability if the alliance with Romania remains effective.
 
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Of course.

And just to be clear: Sigismund never intended to capture it by sea! The plan was actually to have Mihai capture it by land and hand it over to him.

And no liability if the alliance with Romania remains effective.
If they want to take the place within Michael's lifetime,they need to start building a navy already.During this period,the Ottoman Navy was no joke.An alliance with Venice would also help,but I suspect their goal clashes heavily with Michael's,not to mention they would want Constantinople for themselves.I highly doubt Constantinople could be captured without blockading the Dardenelles to prevent the Turks from being resupplied and reinforced.
 
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Poland stronk :cool:

I love this, and I hope that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth can become a bulwark against Russia in the future, because once Romania doesn't has to deal with the Ottomans, Russia is the main enemy, but I guess that is in the far future.
 
That depends on whether the Poles are willing to save themselves.Royal elections and liberum veto would make a fine mess out of it unless they are gone.
 

Zagan

Donor
If they want to take the place within Michael's lifetime,they need to start building a navy already.During this period,the Ottoman Navy is no joke.An alliance with Venice would also help,but I suspect their goal clashes heavily with Michael's,not to mention they would want Constantinople for themselves.

Poland already has access to the Black Sea (see maps) and is very rich.
Ship building begun immediately because, leaving Constantinople aside as a future dream, the conquest of Crimea is on the cards anyway and it is easier done with naval support instead of just storming Perekop Isthmus.
The Poles viewed the Treaty of Perekop with the Ottomans as nothing more than an armistice.

Venice could be given some Aegean and Adriatic Islands...

Poland stronk :cool:

I love this, and I hope that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth can become a bulwark against Russia in the future, because once Romania doesn't has to deal with the Ottomans, Russia is the main enemy, but I guess that is in the far future.

Correct. Russia could become the main enemy in the far future. It needs to be kept down somehow. This is one of the main reasons for Romania to want a stronK Poland: to guard its nothern and eastern borders against any threats from Asia. (in 1600, anything east of the Don River was called Asia)

That depends on whether the Poles are willing to save themselves.Royal elections and liberum veto would make a fine mess out of it unless they are gone.

Many things are about to change in Poland drastically and very soon.
 
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Poland already has access to the Black Sea (see maps) and is very rich.
Ship building begun immediately because, leaving Constantinople aside as a future dream, the conquest of Crimea is on the cards anyway and it is easier done with naval support instead of just storming Perekop Isthmus.
The Poles viewed the Treaty of Perekop with the Ottomans as nothing more than an armistice.

Venice could be given some Aegean and Adriatic Islands...
Yes,but ship building isn't the issue.The issue is whether they have enough sailors of good quality.During this period,you can't develop a navy without having a good merchant marine first because most of the crew was actually drawn from the merchant marine during war and sent back to the merchant marine during peacetime to avoid cost.So while Poland has access to the sea now,it is relatively inexperienced to seafaring given much of 'their' coast earlier was in the hands of their vassal states.Realistically,they definitely would need the help of one of the naval powers such as Venice,Spain,England or the Netherlands to help them take on the Ottomans.

As for Venice,is Michael ready to concede parts of the Adriatic Coast to them?
 

Zagan

Donor
Yes,but ship building isn't the issue.The issue is whether they have enough sailors of good quality.During this period,you can't develop a navy without having a good merchant marine first because most of the crew was actually drawn from the merchant marine during war and sent back to the merchant marine during peacetime to avoid cost.So while Poland has access to the sea now,it is relatively inexperienced to seafaring given much of 'their' coast earlier was in the hands of their vassal states.Realistically,they definitely would need the help of one of the naval powers such as Venice,Spain,England or the Netherlands to help them take on the Ottomans.

As for Venice,is Michael ready to concede parts of the Adriatic Coast to them?

Romania has already imported about 200 sailors and ship-builders from northern Germany. Poland can do the same or simply use the conquered (in the near future) Prussians and Livonians.

But anyway, you are right, it will not be easy.
Something bad has to happen to the Ottoman Navy first. And it will be neither the Romanians nor the Poles to do the deed.

Mihai is willing to give land to Venice, knowing that he will be able to easily take it back later.
 
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Romania has already imported about 200 sailors and ship-builders from northern Germany. Poland can do the same or simply use the conquered (in the near future) Prussians and Livonians.

But anyway, you are right, it will not be easy.
Something bad has to happen to the Ottoman Navy first. And it will be neither the Romanians nor the Poles to do the deed.

Mihai is willing to give land to Venice, knowing that he will be able to easily take it back later.

And I suspect they would have to import naval officers from the west too.
 
Romania wants the Balkan Peninsula minus Constantinople and minus Greece proper (south of Macedonia - Epirus where there are plenty of ethnic Romanians / Aromanians)

The Black Sea is supposed to be a Romanian + Polish Lake, so there will be no much trouble to get by ship from (future) Polish Crimea to (future) Polish Constantinople.
You know, Britain did not have a land border with New Zealand either!
Well, that is slightly...dissapointing from Mihai, to not want to annex Constantinople, Nova Roma. It would also be great to controll the two straits, not to talk about the economical advantages of both Constantinople, where the silk road stops, and the straits, on which a toll, similar to the Sound Toll of Denmark could be established. I don't think it would be too disrespectful to the other europeans if you would controll the strait. Just look at denmark, or at OTL Ottomans. After a few decades no one cared. Think about it, Mihai crowning himself (not being crowned) Emperor of the Romans, in Nova Roma. He will become asap the protector of all the orthodox people, and won't give any excuse to the Spanish or the French to imitate him, since he does crown himself in the capital of the ancient ''greek'' empire.
 

Zagan

Donor
Well, that is slightly...dissapointing from Mihai, to not want to annex Constantinople, Nova Roma. It would also be great to controll the two straits, not to talk about the economical advantages of both Constantinople, where the silk road stops, and the straits, on which a toll, similar to the Sound Toll of Denmark could be established. I don't think it would be too disrespectful to the other europeans if you would controll the strait. Just look at denmark, or at OTL Ottomans. After a few decades no one cared. Think about it, Mihai crowning himself (not being crowned) Emperor of the Romans, in Nova Roma. He will become asap the protector of all the orthodox people, and won't give any excuse to the Spanish or the French to imitate him, since he does crown himself in the capital of the ancient ''greek'' empire.

1. Maybe he is lying when saying that...

2. Anyway, if the large open expenses of the Balkan countryside are somehow easier to overrun, very large fortified cities in very advantageous positions are not.

3. All this is nothing more than planning decades ahead. Anything can turn to be different.

4. Mihai must still placate the Poles somehow. After all they are still about 4 times Romania's size.

5. When Romania gets more powerful, some things may change or may not.

6. A secret treaty is not an obligation after all. And more importantly, it was only signed by the Mihai and Sigismund, not of them on behalf of their countries as with the other treaties so far. His successors may think something alse here.

7. But again, having the Poles as good neighbours is paramount. Look what happened OTL every time someone did not have at least one side protected and got invaded from two sides: Poland, Germany, disaster every time.
 
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Wow, if Mihai really goes with those plans, Russia risks to become even more obscurantist than ever... Constantinople to Poland, and Balkans minus Greece reverted to Catholicism... And if Sigismund will decide to the same with Ukraine, Moscow will goes nuts... I smell Russian screw on air in the long term...
 

Zagan

Donor
Wow, if Mihai really goes with those plans, Russia risks to become even more obscurantist than ever... Constantinople to Poland, and Balkans minus Greece reverted to Catholicism... And if Sigismund will decide to the same with Ukraine, Moscow will goes nuts... I smell Russian screw on air in the long term...

The "plan" to convert to catholicism may be a ploy to get even more of Sigismund's favour. After all, it was easy for Mihai to see that Sigismund was an extremely devout Catholic.

Russian screw, huh? Almost certain in any TL written by a Romanian.
You see, Russia had always had a very big stick and Romania was usually at its receiving end. :(
 
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Well, being a ploy or not, don't you think Sigismund could have started to send secret missivves to Rome? The Papacy would pay tons of gold to support the war effort of the Romanians - and Mihai could even came out unscathered in case his was a bluff due to the imminency of the 30YW... I think after the last defeat, vultures are flying over Wien...
 

Zagan

Donor
Well, being a ploy or not, don't you think Sigismund could have started to send secret missivves to Rome? The Papacy would pay tons of gold to support the war effort of the Romanians - and Mihai could even came out unscathered in case his was a bluff due to the imminency of the 30YW... I think after the last defeat, vultures are flying over Wien...

Would the Pope actually pay significant amounts in order to get a few million more Catholics? Maybe.

In TTL equivalent of the Thirty Years War (which will be VERY different and will start sooner, really crazy war, believe me) the odds are a more on the Protestant's side, sure.
 
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