That Wacky Redhead

[stevep]

Thank you all for your comments so far! As always, your questions and observations will be answered at a time when I am able to give them the thoughtful response that they so richly deserve. In the meantime, a small programming note: I have attached a map to the beginning of the latest update, depicting the economic situation in Europe during the height of the Backwards Bloc era. I apologize for the crudity of the illustration, as cartography is not one of my strengths; however, they do say that a picture is worth a thousand words. All the better, since the update itself was already 8,000 words long... The infoboxes and other visual aids will follow, though not quite so rapidly, alas.

Brainbin

Interesting. I didn't think of Denmark but would it actually join the EEC under those circumstances? After all that would put trade barriers between it and important markets such as Britain and Scandinavia? Although it did join with Britain and Ireland OTL. Thinking because its traditionally thought of in Britain as a big supplier of food especially [Ahhh Danisssh] this could be more of a problem. However that's based on the traditional British viewpoint which could be faulty and it probably also had substantial trade with Germany and the Netherlands especially.

Steve

 

[Dan1988]

Hmm, a very interesting update all around, Brainbin.

 

[Orville_third]

Great update!
A few questions:
-Is the Shah still seeking nuclear power?
-Is Reagan wanting to do "Star Wars" ITTL?
-Would the Religious Right continue to stay out of national politics?
-In that vein, will Reagan favor federal aid to segregated religious schools?

 

[NCW8]

That is a very solid update (in a good way).

But President Reagan certainly had a chance to enact some of his policies in the meantime, and that’s precisely what he did. First and foremost, at the insistence of many influential economic minds within his party, he placed the United States back on the gold standard, as the “shock” from the collapse of the Breton Woods system under Humphrey was believed to have contributed to the worsening of what had at first seemed to be the relatively mild recession which had followed the Oil Crisis.

As others have said, that is not such a good idea. It looks like Reagan's economic advice isn't any better ITTL. However, the bad effects might not be felt as quickly as those of Monetarism IOTL.

Just as was the case in the United States, the government in the United Kingdom had a seemingly-insurmountable lead in its (elected) legislature, the House of Commons. William Whitelaw, like Ronald Reagan, had seen his party swept in as a reaction to the perceived mismanagement by the ruling party of the time

He's a plausible choice to replace Heath - and probably would make a reasonable P.M. for the time.

Labour, being on the left side of the British political spectrum, and having been forced to withdraw to their electoral strongholds after their devastating defeat in the 1974 election, was mostly dominated by this leftist rabble thereafter; they naturally chose one of their own, Michael Foot, as Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition (and, potentially, a future Prime Minister) to challenge Whitelaw and his Tories in the next election.

I'd have thought that Labour wouldn't have gone that far to the Left that quickly. IOTL, Foot's election has been put down to some shenanigans by the Gang of Four, just before they left to form the SDP (the idea being that his leadership would encourage more people to support the SDP).

Still, it makes for some interesting slogans for the General Election - "Who do you trust, a Foot or a Willie ?"

The linchpin, however, was a fatal mistake made by the French President, Francois Mitterrand, in continuing negotiations with Whitelaw and his Cabinet. Mitterrand, who was the de facto leader of the EEC, had been spearheading closer economic ties between its members in the wake of the Oil Crisis (which was naturally quite devastating to the oil-poor organization), and his pet project was a joint currency.

I'd say that an EEC currency doesn't have much chance of being implemented at this time TTL. Without the prospect of Reunification, the Germans aren't going to be persuaded to give up the Mark. While Denmark is a member of the EEC, I don't think that it will be very enthusiastic about increased centralisation. IOTL, it has often joined Britain in opposition to increasing the power of Brussels - note that it still is not a member of the Euro.

As the British pound sterling had only recently been decimalized by the mid-1970s, he felt that the attachment of the British people to their ancient currency was not so strong as to prohibit discussions with the British government which would entail joining the new currency.

I'm not sure that he would make that mistake. Decimalisation was carried out in such a way as to minimise the apparent change. In particular, the Pound was kept as it was and the Florin, Shilling and Sixpence coins remained in circulation long after Decimilisation (even though the latter was confusingly only worth two and a half New Pence). This differs from the Decimilsation process carried out in Australia and New Zealand where the Dollar was introduced with a value of ten Shillings, thus keeping the Penny close to its pre-decimalisation value.

This impasse resulted in a compromise candidate after the third day of voting: the affable, well-regarded, and perpetually smiling Cardinal Sebastiano Baggio, who took the Papal name of Innocent XIV, which was something of a throwback, as the previous Pope Innocent had reigned over 250 years before.

That's going to have interesting effects in Poland. It will probably slow the growth of Solidarnosc, as John-Paul II's visit to Poland in 1979 encouraged membership in the independant union.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[stevep]

I'd say that an EEC currency doesn't have much chance of being implemented at this time TTL. Without the prospect of Reunification, the Germans aren't going to be persuaded to give up the Mark. While Denmark is a member of the EEC, I don't think that it will be very enthusiastic about increased centralisation. IOTL, it has often joined Britain in opposition to increasing the power of Brussels - note that it still is not a member of the Euro.

Very true. Even with Britain not being involved this is probably far too early in the centralisation process for discussion of a common currency. After all the formal name is still the EEC and there's no real talk about political unification yet. National identities are a lot stronger and a European nation a much weaker idea at this point.

I'm not sure that he would make that mistake. Decimalisation was carried out in such a way as to minimise the apparent change. In particular, the Pound was kept as it was and the Florin, Shilling and Sixpence coins remained in circulation long after Decimilisation (even though the latter was confusingly only worth two and a half New Pence). This differs from the Decimilsation process carried out in Australia and New Zealand where the Dollar was introduced with a value of ten Shillings, thus keeping the Penny close to its pre-decimalisation value.

It is possibly a strange mistake for a politician to make, but not sure how much knowledge he and his officials would have of Britain and the British viewpoint at the time. However given how lukewarm large elements of Britain were on membership at all its definitely a significant blunder.

That's going to have interesting effects in Poland. It will probably slow the growth of Solidarnosc, as John-Paul II's visit to Poland in 1979 encouraged membership in the independant union.

Cheers,
Nigel.

I forgot to comment on this. The dangerous impact here could be that without a Polish pope the developing Polish crisis will receive less publicity in the west and the Soviets and Poles will be aware of this. Hence you could have a more desperate population and/or political and military leadership more confident that a hard line won't cause a strong reaction. The OTL Polish military take-over was relatively 'soft' and carefully managed. It could be TTL that things are managed less well, in which case it could get very nasty, not to say bloody. Given their history, if its an overt Soviet intervention I would say its likely there will be at least some direct resistance. Hopefully that can be avoided but I've always been of the feeling that we were pretty lucky TTL with the fact the Soviet empire went down without major conflict outsider Afghanistan.

Steve

 

[Thande]

I'd say that an EEC currency doesn't have much chance of being implemented at this time TTL. Without the prospect of Reunification, the Germans aren't going to be persuaded to give up the Mark. While Denmark is a member of the EEC, I don't think that it will be very enthusiastic about increased centralisation. IOTL, it has often joined Britain in opposition to increasing the power of Brussels - note that it still is not a member of the Euro.

Very true. Even with Britain not being involved this is probably far too early in the centralisation process for discussion of a common currency. After all the formal name is still the EEC and there's no real talk about political unification yet. National identities are a lot stronger and a European nation a much weaker idea at this point.

Firstly, you should blame me for this not Brainbin if you object to its plausibility; he wanted a way to try and discourage the Conservatives (very europhile in the 70s) from trying another EEC entry bid and this is what I came up with. I should point out that you are perhaps seeing this too much through a British utilitarian perspective: the single European currency has always been an aspirational ideological thing much more than a practical one in how it has been put forward over the ages. "If this makes our economies better, that's nice, but the point is that we are making a statement about ending war and fostering European fraternity" sums it up. The idea of a single European currency was first mooted in the 1920s (albeit not very seriously) in the wake of the 'The League of Nations is teh awesum' attitude, and in its modern incarnation it was discussed in the 1960s and first seriously proposed in 1971. The collapse of Bretton Woods is what really kickstarted the road to the Euro in OTL, as the EEC nations created the ECU as a purely notional exchange currency to stabilise their own exchange rates in the economic chaos. So with an earlier President Mitterand, a big enthusiast for the single currency idea, I don't think this is too far-fetched.

 

[stevep]

Firstly, you should blame me for this not Brainbin if you object to its plausibility; he wanted a way to try and discourage the Conservatives (very europhile in the 70s) from trying another EEC entry bid and this is what I came up with. I should point out that you are perhaps seeing this too much through a British utilitarian perspective: the single European currency has always been an aspirational ideological thing much more than a practical one in how it has been put forward over the ages. "If this makes our economies better, that's nice, but the point is that we are making a statement about ending war and fostering European fraternity" sums it up. The idea of a single European currency was first mooted in the 1920s (albeit not very seriously) in the wake of the 'The League of Nations is teh awesum' attitude, and in its modern incarnation it was discussed in the 1960s and first seriously proposed in 1971. The collapse of Bretton Woods is what really kickstarted the road to the Euro in OTL, as the EEC nations created the ECU as a purely notional exchange currency to stabilise their own exchange rates in the economic chaos. So with an earlier President Mitterand, a big enthusiast for the single currency idea, I don't think this is too far-fetched.

Thande

Interesting. I have read some stories about how there were long term plans in place for widespread unification, as opposed to the way the organisation was pitched in Britain, but rather forgot them. As you say national experience tends to skew views.

Steve

 

[Thande]

Thande

Interesting. I have read some stories about how there were long term plans in place for widespread unification, as opposed to the way the organisation was pitched in Britain, but rather forgot them. As you say national experience tends to skew views.

Steve

Indeed. I should also emphasise this is more 'you are required to sign up to pursuing a single currency and adopt it once we have a plan for one' rather than one actually being created anytime soon - more or less what the Vilnius 10 countries were required to sign up to in 2004 in OTL, except in that case the euro already existed and it was a case of 'you are required to pledge to join it at some point in the future'.

 

[NCW8]

Firstly, you should blame me for this not Brainbin if you object to its plausibility; he wanted a way to try and discourage the Conservatives (very europhile in the 70s) from trying another EEC entry bid and this is what I came up with. I should point out that you are perhaps seeing this too much through a British utilitarian perspective: the single European currency has always been an aspirational ideological thing much more than a practical one in how it has been put forward over the ages. "If this makes our economies better, that's nice, but the point is that we are making a statement about ending war and fostering European fraternity" sums it up. The idea of a single European currency was first mooted in the 1920s (albeit not very seriously) in the wake of the 'The League of Nations is teh awesum' attitude, and in its modern incarnation it was discussed in the 1960s and first seriously proposed in 1971. The collapse of Bretton Woods is what really kickstarted the road to the Euro in OTL, as the EEC nations created the ECU as a purely notional exchange currency to stabilise their own exchange rates in the economic chaos. So with an earlier President Mitterand, a big enthusiast for the single currency idea, I don't think this is too far-fetched.

It's true that Willy Brandt proposed Economic and Monetary Union at the meeting of the EEC Heads of Government in the Hague in 1969. However, the proposal explicitly stated that "The development of monetary cooperation should be based on harmonisation of economic policies". In other words, economic convergence had to come before currency union. This was formally known as the Schiller Plan or Stufenplan ("Step-by-Step Plan").

Given the consensus nature of German politics in the 1970s and especially pride at the German Economic Miracle, I don't think that you're going to see anything greatly different ITTL. If anything, other German Chancellors might not be as keen on Monetary Union as Brandt was.

Edit: Actually, I think you've just said more-or-less the same to stevep.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[DTF955Baseballfan]

Glad you're still reading! Though perhaps you may have missed this update, in which I introduce Williams as co-starring in The Richard Pryor Show, a sketch-comedy series based on a (very) short-lived OTL program of the same name. Its failure, not its success, was what made Williams available for Mork and Mindy IOTL, and therefore the show will not exist ITTL. And as Penny Marshall (Garry's sister) starred on Those Were the Days and is working on her own show with Linda Bloodworth (one of that show's writers) instead, it is unlikely that Rock Around the Clock will have spinoffs that are analogous to those of OTL (and before anyone asks, there's no "Chachi" character ITTL, either).


You know, I had a funny feeling that you might have written a relevant fan fiction!

Thanks, yeah, I missed that one; you can tell I go a while between time I get to read this one. It sounds like the perfect vehicle for Williams. I didn't realize, as you mentioned later, that he did drugs - I knew he had an alcohol problem. It's a shame people can't learn to be that crazy without that.

As to the fanfiction, i thought you'd especially like it becasue of the C Plot of the Dr. Who and Star Trek fans arguing. it's not a main point, but just Detective Yemana threatenign to set his phaser on "coffee..."

And for baseball fans, the other sitcom I thought of pariing them with also wound up getting a crossover with the twins as seniors in high schoo, in an exchange proggram with an inner city school in Brooklyn,a nd shameless plug for my alternate baseball history as well. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/9109154/1/A-Common-Thread

Keep up the good work.

 

[NCW8]

Firstly, you should blame me for this not Brainbin if you object to its plausibility; he wanted a way to try and discourage the Conservatives (very europhile in the 70s) from trying another EEC entry bid and this is what I came up with.

Thinking about this, I'm not sure that the Euro currency scare is necessary. The Conservatives were europhile in the seventies because British business leaders thought that joining the EEC would be good for business. Now if ITTL, Britain has the various Commonwealth trade agreements in addition to membership of EFTA, then the business case for joining the EEC is much less strong anyway and that would naturally increase the Europhobe tendancy.

If that is not the case, then it's a bit strange that the British Press have moved to a europhobe stance earlier than OTL in contrast to both the business community and the political classes - IOTL even the Daily Mirror supported the Yes campaign in the 1975 EEC Referendum.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[stevep]

Thinking about this, I'm not sure that the Euro currency scare is necessary. The Conservatives were europhile in the seventies because British business leaders thought that joining the EEC would be good for business. Now if ITTL, Britain has the various Commonwealth trade agreements in addition to membership of EFTA, then the business case for joining the EEC is much less strong anyway and that would naturally increase the Europhobe tendancy.

If that is not the case, then it's a bit strange that the British Press have moved to a europhobe stance earlier than OTL in contrast to both the business community and the political classes - IOTL even the Daily Mirror supported the Yes campaign in the 1975 EEC Referendum.

Cheers,
Nigel.

NCW8

Good point. Also I get the feeling that Britain is feeling a lot better off than it was OTL. Remember a lot of the arguments in the referendum campaign was based on 'the EEC will solve our economic problems'. With the people feeling more confident this will be a lot less attractive.

Steve

 

[jpj1421]

Walter Mondale or Jimmy Carter in 1980!!!!

Good update as always.

 

[Thande]

I've noticed an unfortunate trend where people being mentioned on this thread is swiftly followed by their deaths...RIP Frank Thornton

 

[Dan1988]

Yeah, I noticed that last night. RIP Captain Peacock - the Royal Army Service Corps wouldn't be the same.

 

[ryu238]

You know, I can't help but feel that this update was inspired a bit by events IOTL, though I can't quite see it. Also was getting rid of the gold standard really that important?

 

[ryu238]

Also I wonder if this timeline is losing the suspension of disbelief here, looking at the other responces here.

 

[NCW8]

Also I wonder if this timeline is losing the suspension of disbelief here, looking at the other responces here.

For me, the main problem is this sentence:

The British press (generally more sceptical of the concept of a “United Europe” than the establishment to begin with) got word of the currency proposal and (predictably) reacted with sensationalist outrage, which quickly spread to the people.

That's projecting the euro-sceptic press sentiment back into the Seventies, when most of the British press was actually quite pro-EEC. For example see the analysis of newspaper reporting during the EEC Referendum in 1975 (attached below). In general, while the Establishment was pro-EEC, most of the Press was as well. When business leaders and Conservatives became more Euro-sceptic in the Eighties, several newspapers did as well. Since newspapers like to represent issues in a "Black and White" manner, they often went further and faster than most of the business leaders.

Mitterand's plans for Economic and Monetary Union ITTL are unlikely to go further than was already being discussed IOTL for the simple reason that the Germans wouldn't agree to it. The OTL discussions didn't provoke an anti-EEC reaction in the British press, so the most likely reason for the reaction described above is that the press had already taken a more Euro-sceptic stance and that is really only going to happen if the Establishment had already cooled towards EEC membership. This could happen if EFTA and the Commonwealth trade agreements are seen as a better market than the EEC.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[stevep]

Nigel

Interesting figures. Never realised how strongly the press was pro-EEC at the time. Especially possibly the Mirror since the main core of doubt about Europe was more in Labour than the Tories at the time. Thanks for that.

Steve

 

[Brainbin]

Thank you all for your responses and criticisms with regards to my latest update! As always, I appreciate your candor, and have edited the post accordingly based on your suggestions where I felt it necessary. Before I continue with my replies to your responses, however, I have another special announcement!

e of pi has been most pleased to see your enthusiasm for his potential guest update, and part of the reason that I've been quiet for a bit longer than usual is that we've been going over it for the past few days, and it looks just about finished. Therefore, his interlude update will be posted at the end of this cycle!

Awesome update Brainbin. No Iranian Revolution, means no Argo ITTL.

Thank you! And yes, I thought it would be appropriate that we perfectly reverse the OTL circumstances of the Argo film ITTL.

Uh-oh. Going back on the gold standard? That... is not the good idea the influential Republican economic minds think.

An unfortunate side-effect of unfettered power for a certain faction within the party. They'll learn about the pitfalls of the gold standard... the hard way.

Fascinating and entertaining.

Thank you, Steve!

I rather like the way Britain is developing although hopefully Whitelaw will now face up to the unions. He should be able to win and re-balance power in Britain without going to the excesses of Thatcher and her successors.

That, of course, will remain to be seen.

Going to be interesting in Iran as the Shah hangs on, although not really sure if he was intelligent enough for real reform so it could just delay matters.

Well, bear in mind that even a moderately small delay might just be all we need...

Also I like that Portugal keeps E Timor and hence prevents the bloody Indonesian occupation.

As do I. Something worth noting is that Portugal retains a larger seafaring empire than any other country save for the three nautical Great Powers (the US, the UK, and France)

I take it in TTL Taiwan still holds the 5th permanent seat in the UN.

No, UN recognition switched from the ROC to the PRC, as IOTL - though many of the member states who voted in favour are now beginning to sorely regret having done so.

What is the situation in the ME? Can't remember if the 73 war happened and if so whether you have had Egypt start to change to a pro-western stance?

The Yom Kippur War happened on schedule, resulting in an Oil Crisis resembling that of OTL. I have not yet mentioned the fate of Egypt.

I presume when you say Spain gave up all its colonies you include the former Spanish Sahara, which has probably been occupied by Morocco as OTL but do you include the two coastal cities?

Ceuta and Melilla remain Spanish possessions.

Anyway a very interesting world you have here.

Thank you, Steve - this one was definitely when the chickens came home to roost

Good and very long update. A lot to digest, as you say.

Thank you, Thande! And indeed it is. Even more to write, I assure you

As LordInsane says, going back on the gold standard is a very bad idea, as Winston Churchill found in the 1920s. Ben Disraeli predicted this would happen: he said that people would associate the gold standard with good economic times in the 19th century and thus think the adoption of the gold standard caused a good economy, when the reality was that a good economy caused the adoption of the gold standard, and if the economy was currently weak then the gold standard would just make it worse.

An excellent observation. Consider this the last hurrah of not only the gold standard but any non-fiat currency.

I know you mean as in the other meaning of the word, 'elected by the people' etc., but it's just wrong to use the words 'popular' and 'House of Commons' in the same sentence

Fair enough - I switched it to "elective". Fortunately, back then, the House of Lords was strictly hereditary or by appointment

The monarchist revival is interesting--as you say in the text, it's one of those things which is unlikely on paper, but we know from the OTL lone example of Spain that it can happen, and Spain had just as much hostility to its monarchy as Portugal.

And believe it or not, I still haven't completely elaborated on all of the root causes of the late-1970s monarchical revival!

The bit about still using Wade-Giles and terms like 'Red China' suggests China is not going to open up any time soon and is likely to delay its OTL rise as an economic power.

A logical assumption, though it should be noted that their bad relationship with the American government is largely responsible for both of those enduring ITTL.

I seem to recall being told that the word 'conservateur' has negative connotations to French speakers both in France and Quebec, hence why francophone conservative parties tend to avoid it, though you might well know more than me on this.

I'm not familiar with those connotations - Quebecers certainly weren't fond of the federal Conservatives because of the Conscription Crisis (ironically, in the 1917 election fought on that issue, they ran as the Unionist Party), but they still voted for them overwhelmingly in 1958 (and, IOTL, in 1984 and 1988) - and two revived Quebec Conservative Parties were formed IOTL, once in the 1980s and again in 2009 (this second party remains extant). Also, the newly-merged federal Conservative Party (less the oxymoronic "Progressive" prefix) put in good showings in the province in 2006 and 2008 IOTL, as well as in numerous by-elections in the late-2000s. The term Union Conservateur was chosen ITTL because of the merger between the Union Nationale and the Socred-offshoot Parti National Populaire - the name Union Nationale was highly dated and had a stigma of its own by then, perhaps too reminiscent of the 1950s premiership of their controversial leader, Maurice Duplessis. Both parties were broadly conservative, and the federal Tories were quite popular in Quebec at the time of the merger (it was 1976, the year of the Olympics), and the Union Nationale did have continuity with the ancient Conservative Party, which gave this new party some legitimacy. As it turned out, all of these factors bolstered them with Anglos, which wasn't technically their intention.

Interesting--was this inspired by recent OTL events in American politics, when Obama supposedly had a supermajority in both chambers but often couldn't pass the laws he wanted because some of the Democrats in question were moderate to conservative 'Blue Dogs'?

That may have been something of an inspiration, yes

Interesting. I didn't think of Denmark but would it actually join the EEC under those circumstances? After all that would put trade barriers between it and important markets such as Britain and Scandinavia? Although it did join with Britain and Ireland OTL. Thinking because its traditionally thought of in Britain as a big supplier of food especially [Ahhh Danisssh] this could be more of a problem. However that's based on the traditional British viewpoint which could be faulty and it probably also had substantial trade with Germany and the Netherlands especially.

I thought about having the Danish electorate reject joining the EEC as well, but the margin of victory struck me as just too wide to butterfly. Besides, since the United Kingdom is not going to join the EEC ITTL, that means the organization is going to need a token Eurosceptic member. Enter Denmark!

Hmm, a very interesting update all around, Brainbin.

Thank you, Dan! I appreciate that.

Great update!
A few questions:
-Is the Shah still seeking nuclear power?
-Is Reagan wanting to do "Star Wars" ITTL?
-Would the Religious Right continue to stay out of national politics?
-In that vein, will Reagan favor federal aid to segregated religious schools?

Thank you for the compliment, Orville_third, though unfortunately I cannot answer any of your questions at the moment. However, you will find out in due time!

That is a very solid update (in a good way).

Thank you, Nigel.

Still, it makes for some interesting slogans for the General Election - "Who do you trust, a Foot or a Willie ?"

I have no doubt whatsoever that would catch on during the campaign

That's going to have interesting effects in Poland. It will probably slow the growth of Solidarnosc, as John-Paul II's visit to Poland in 1979 encouraged membership in the independant union.

An excellent point.

Indeed. I should also emphasise this is more 'you are required to sign up to pursuing a single currency and adopt it once we have a plan for one' rather than one actually being created anytime soon - more or less what the Vilnius 10 countries were required to sign up to in 2004 in OTL, except in that case the euro already existed and it was a case of 'you are required to pledge to join it at some point in the future'.

Yes, this is definitely what I was intending to convey in Mitterrand making that suggestion in the update.

Thanks, yeah, I missed that one; you can tell I go a while between time I get to read this one. It sounds like the perfect vehicle for Williams. I didn't realize, as you mentioned later, that he did drugs - I knew he had an alcohol problem. It's a shame people can't learn to be that crazy without that.

Unfortunately, in that era, drug addiction was ridiculously common, and often had devastating results. Look at John Belushi (a close friend of Williams) IOTL.

Keep up the good work.

Thank you! I will do my best

Thinking about this, I'm not sure that the Euro currency scare is necessary. The Conservatives were europhile in the seventies because British business leaders thought that joining the EEC would be good for business. Now if ITTL, Britain has the various Commonwealth trade agreements in addition to membership of EFTA, then the business case for joining the EEC is much less strong anyway and that would naturally increase the Europhobe tendancy.

This is indeed going to happen, though gradually. Think of the UK staying out of the EEC being due to a death by a thousand cuts, so to speak.

Walter Mondale or Jimmy Carter in 1980!!!!

We'll see about that.

Good update as always.

Thank you very much

I've noticed an unfortunate trend where people being mentioned on this thread is swiftly followed by their deaths...RIP Frank Thornton

Yeah, I noticed that last night. RIP Captain Peacock - the Royal Army Service Corps wouldn't be the same.

Well said, gentlemen. Thornton lived a long and full life - including serving in the RAF as a Flight Officer during World War II - and he entertained millions around the world. May he rest in peace. This now leaves Nicholas Smith, aka Mr "Jug Ears" Rumbold, as the sole surviving original cast member of Are You Being Served?.

You know, I can't help but feel that this update was inspired a bit by events IOTL, though I can't quite see it.

Yes, this update was basically my attempt at being topical for a change.

Also I wonder if this timeline is losing the suspension of disbelief here, looking at the other responces here.

I'm sorry that you seem to have come to that conclusion. This isn't the first time that people have quibbled about the finer details of this timeline, nor is it the first that I've tweaked my posts in order to better reflect to consensus of my readers. I certainly hope that you'll continue to read and enjoy my timeline in the future.

For me, the main problem is this sentence:

Which, I hope you will note, I have gone back and corrected, while at the same time clarifying some other sticking points.

---

I hope to have the next update - a return to more familiar ground for this thread - ready in the next few days! So, until then...