Thank you all for your replies to my latest update! I'm glad to see that it went over as well as it did. And now, as always, for my responses...
Nice to see East Asian culture getting a leg-up in the West here! It's enough to make one wonder what's happening with good ol' Godzilla...
Believe it or not, Orientalism has permeated popular culture only
slightly more than it did at this stage IOTL - but the critical difference, one that
could give it staying power, is the presence of Bruce Lee (who is considered fully "American" ITTL, as opposed to OTL, where he had a foot on each continent).
As for kaiju films,
King Kong vs. Godzilla was released
before the POD, in 1962. Really, there's nowhere to go but
down at this point
vultan said:
Or what if some Japanese producers decide to follow the prevailing trends in pop culture and we get a hilarious Star Trek rip-off?
Now
there is a positively
intriguing suggestion...
vultan said:
But speaking of China again, one wonders how the average American's perception of the country would change in the long-term without the normalization of relations with America, and, therefore, economic liberalization.
Or, rather, how it would
not change in the long-term. Especially since we now have
the anticommunist President in office.
vultan said:
Thank you, vultan!
I've been reading this TL for some time, but it's my first comment here. As I don't know much about pop-culture of those times, it'll be about politics:
UN and Taiwan (Republic of China) - there's a mention of ROC no longer in UN Security Council, but nothing is said about it being kicked out of UN altogether. Does it mean TTL there are two Chinas in UN? With US-PRC relations colder it wouldn't be surprising for US to prevent kicking ROC out, I believe.
That said, keep up good work.
Thank you for the compliment, Tizoc, and welcome aboard! Please excuse the ambiguity of my update. The Republic of China was removed from the United Nations altogether ITTL, as IOTL, and not just its Security Council seat. I merely chose to emphasize the latter in order to demonstrate the ascendancy of Red China.
If memory serves, a key part of it was the General Assembly redefining the government representing China in the UN as being the PRC. That technically didn't have to go via the Security Council, so it could be done without a veto.
OK thanks. That makes sense, although it does imply that the Security Council could theoretically be by-passed on other issues.
Thanks for helping me out there, LordInsane! Yes, everything about the process IOTL happened ITTL; it was basically inevitable by the time of the POD
anyway, ironically enough brought about through decolonization, which was sponsored by the United States in the first place!
Stevie Wonder instead of Paul McCartney ? How is McCartney's career progressing ITTL compared to OTL ?
He's still with Wings - the roster of which is somewhat more stable than that of OTL - and Wings is phenomenally successful, just minus one major OTL hit.
NCW8 said:
Given how popular both the
Kung Foo tv series and Bruce Lee's films were in OTL, this is probably going to be a big hit in the UK as well. And yes they were another part of popular culture parodied by the
Goodies. Be careful, as the episode about the Lancastrian martial art of Ecky Thump has literally caused someone to laugh themselves to death.
This is very likely, though I doubt it would
resonate in precisely the same way that it would stateside, with a large and very entrenched Chinese-American population.
Why does the James Bond people chose a young kid who first big hit has not even come out in 1978?
Jackie Chan first big hit in Asia is Snake in the eagle Shadow which was released in 1978 in Hong Kong. He would follow that Up with Drunken Master which was Chan first comedy Kung Fu movie.
It amazing that the Bond producers could see the success Chan would be in the future.
They don't need to be convinced by some future success, they just need to be convinced by his auditions. They may deliberately choose a relative unknown for it--they tend to be cheaper, after all, than established figures and his popularity in Hong Kong movies won't put butts in seats in the US. Besides, with all the changes due to Way of the Warrior, Chan may get some small breaks in Hong Kong earlier that'd make his resume more impressive than it was at this time OTL--enough that the producers are willing to give him an audition.
I couldn't have said it any better myself. Thank you, e of pi
Now this update has a title that's a little more like it.
Great song, one of the iconic one-hit wonders, and sadly butterflied ITTL. But meta-fiction will never forget!
phx1138 said:
I don't suppose you'd allow him work in TV, so only real fans of a show, & of the creative team, would ever notice? (I won't miss him; just askin'.)
I'm afraid not; TTL Robert Altman will be going the way of Michael Cimino and Hal Ashby IOTL.
phx1138 said:
Also, thx for giving Bruce a chance to do serious work. I've always wondered what his *"Kung Fu" would have looked like. This feels right.
Thank you. Asian-Americans never really had a single, revelatory figure in OTL screen history equivalent to a Poitier, but ITTL, they certainly have a contender
Even accepting that Chan has a better career, Why would the Bond Producers let him choreograph the film? Chan not going to have that advance a career. At best we move up his first success one or two years, but he still would be choreographing film till the 1980's.
I remind you that the POD for this timeline is 1966, with massive worldwide butterflies taking effect by 1969. That is nearly
ten years before the production and release of
The Man with the Golden Gun. The entire Hong Kong film industry has been radically changed due to the absence of the man who, IOTL, would become its biggest and most enduring star. This gap allows others to rise in his place. In addition, I noted in the update that Chan choreographs
only for the Hong Kong performers (many of whom he would have worked with in some prior capacity); everything else, including all of the Bond-related stunt setpieces, is left to others.
Good update, doing a lot of the stuff we predicted would happen.
Thank you, Thande! And it's true: I can't
always be dropping bombshells
Thande said:
I always find it odd how 'Oriental' is apparently considered offensive across the water. Of course there 'Asian' is used to mean 'East Asian' by default rather than 'Indians and Pakistanis' so I suppose 'Oriental' more became associated with old-fashioned usage and therefore chauvinism.
"Oriental" is a
contentious term in North America rather than an unambiguously offensive one - along the lines of "Dwarf" to refer to those of short stature and "Indian" to describe aboriginal peoples. In the 1970s, of course,
that was the catch-all term before it was later supplanted by (as you mention) simply "Asian", which is further subdivided into "East Asian" and "South Asian"
. I also wonder if it's simply the
euphemism treadmill at work, as "Oriental"
is indeed a rather antiquated term.
I hope to have my next update ready in just a few more days! Wish me luck, because I'm going to need it