I'd argue that TOS - both in OTL and in That Wacky Redhead's world - can be excused, given the limitations (both budgetary and technologically) it was acting under when it came to special effects (notwithstanding sidestepping attempts like with the Kelvans).
That Wacky Redhead
- Thread starter Brainbin
- Start date
That would work quite well. Either the reptile race were trying to restore the Silurians out of Saurian chauvenism or they were a space travelling offshoot of the Silurians - something like the Voth from ST:Voyager.
Cheers,
Nigel.
Thande
Donor
This sort of story idea was the basis for the Star Trek novel "First Frontier" by Diane Carey (with advice from a paleontologist). The idea was that a group of dinosaurs had been taken off Earth by the Preservers, dumped on a planet somewhere in what became the Federation, and had evolved into an intelligent but violent race called the Clan Ru. They rejected Federation membership and turned isolationist, eventually discovering their heritage. They hijacked the Guardian of Forever and sent a team through to avert the K-T extinction event. The plot idea is that the Enterprise is testing a new kind of shield which protects it from the temporal shockwave as history is changed (this predates a similar idea being used in "First Contact"). The other starships taking part in the exercise just vanish and Kirk & co. find themselves on their own.
The middle part of the book is then a case of "It's Humanity's Wonderful Life": they go to Earth and find it is reptilian but primitive and devastated, because intelligent dinosaurs evolved on Earth only to repeatedly nuke themselves back to the Stone Age over and over again in an endless cycle. As for everywhere else, it's a galactic dystopia. They encounter the Romulans, who are the only major power left and dominate all local space in an all-controlling empire. The Vulcans are reduced to a Ferengi-like trading race who secretly help the Klingons, the only thing left standing in the Romulans' way, who are severely outmatched but manage to score some victories using missiles piloted by kamikaze pilots. The point is that without humanity, the Federation never formed, the free races failed to defeat the Romulans in the Romulan War, and then you can imagine what happens.
Anyway, the Enterprise fights its way to the Guardian of Forever's planet with a bit of Vulcan help, and a Kirk-led landing party beams down and manages to get through to Earth's past just as the alt-Romulans are about to destroy the ship (commanded by Scotty). They manage to stop the Clan Ru stopping the asteroid, and history snaps back just before the Enterprise is destroyed.
Something along those lines, if you can accept the idea of it being conceived earlier on, could work as the basis for an episode. It does seem like the kind of thing Harlan Ellison might be amenable to writing.
I wonder how soon dinosaur-killing asteroids could appear in popular culture. Dr Who referred to it in Earthshock (1982) IOTL. In written SF, Niven and Pournelle described asteroid collisions in Lucifer's Hammer (1977), but AFAIR didn't actually mention the link to the extinction of the dinosaurs.
The Silurians (1970) went into hibernation because they observed an approaching planetoid, but IMS this went into orbit to become our moon rather than colliding with the Earth. In terms of referring to the asteroid collision theory, that could be described as a near miss.
I guess that it would be possible to include the idea in a film in the late seventies, especially if increased interest in the space program has caused the theory to be popularised earlier than IOTL.
Cheers,
Nigel.
All right, I've been cracking down and doing some writing, in hopes of having the next update ready on or before the end of the month (August 31 at 11:59:59 PM EDT). The odds that I'll pull it off are reasonably good, and then it's only two more updates before the end of the cycle... at which time there will be several important announcements about the future of this timeline. Thank you all so much for your enduring and voracious interest in what I still consider this idiosyncratic little story of mine.
Harlan Ellison is never going to return to Star Trek - for one thing, he's working on another show during the later years of its run (the anthology series "Far Beyond the Stars", which he characteristically trumpets as "real science-fiction" whenever anyone mentions Star Trek to him). Even though his primary beef is with Roddenberry, who is very hands-off in later years, no doubt he's also nursing a grudge against Desilu (since he's the type who could form a grudge against a gust of wind). They also won't want to overuse the Guardian - it reappears in "Yesteryear", where it is treated as a routine tool for historical research.
You should really feel sorry for the Story Editor in between John D.F. Black and D.C. Fontana - his name was Steven W. Carabatsos, and he served in that position for the majority of the first season, writing two episodes (unfortunately for him, both were thoroughly average: "Court Martial" and "Operation -- Annihilate!"). He also revised "Miri" and was one of many who worked on "The City on the Edge of Forever"). He's one of those people whom nobody ever seems to remember in connection with Star Trek.Huh. Seems his name stuck with me more than it should've.
But really, isn't that what Doctor Who is known for? Other than the wobbly sets, of course
No comment
The series proper did have quite a few non-humanoids; I like to think that the movies, once they got the makeup flowing, "locked" the franchise into Rubber Forehead Aliens - it doesn't help, of course, that it's what Roddenberry wanted, and he was able to set the tone in such a way that his successors simply followed along.
I've already been asked to do that, and we'll see if I can't make some room for it on the list of updates. Most of your other questions will be answered then.
In That Wacky Redhead, there's definitely more of a concerted effort to move away from this. Roddenberry and whatever he may have wanted is basically ignored - he has virtually no say in the show during its later seasons (the only episode he is credited as "writing" is the "story" for the two-part finale, which is basically just Coon and Fontana sitting in a room with him and asking how he'd like to see it end, and taking notes). Between Chang, Prohaska, and Henson, there are going to be a lot more creatures in the later seasons ITTL - both miniatures and the full-body variety (traditional hand-puppet-style creatures would only be used for stationary life-forms, as in "The Man Trap" IOTL).
I like your story idea, but unfortunately, I'm not writing an ASB timeline
Harlan Ellison is never going to return to Star Trek - for one thing, he's working on another show during the later years of its run (the anthology series "Far Beyond the Stars", which he characteristically trumpets as "real science-fiction" whenever anyone mentions Star Trek to him). Even though his primary beef is with Roddenberry, who is very hands-off in later years, no doubt he's also nursing a grudge against Desilu (since he's the type who could form a grudge against a gust of wind). They also won't want to overuse the Guardian - it reappears in "Yesteryear", where it is treated as a routine tool for historical research.That's a very salient point - another theory which, from my perspective, seems to have been around forever (the asteroid killing the dinosaurs - we even know where the crater is nowadays), but is actually relatively recent (hence the famous question, "What killed the dinosaurs?"). Who knows which alternate theory Star Trek might choose?
But really, isn't that what Doctor Who is known for? Other than the wobbly sets, of course
Mostly gravel pits and corridors - the wobbly sets were somewhat exagerated.
As for non-humanoid aliens, I read an interview with an actor who played one of the ant-like Zarbi. Apparently the costume was so heavy, it was like walking around with a wardrobe on your back. If you fell over, there was no way to get up again without assistance. Who says actors have an easy life ?
That's true:
There's also the example of Harry Harrison's West of Eden, which in the appendix describes the asteroid collision as occurring in the north Atlantic, leading to the formation of Iceland.
Cheers,
Nigel.
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Thande
Donor
"If in doubt, put an asymmetric horn on its head. That looks alien, right?"
They did the same thing with the mugato, I recall. By the time of "Star Trek VI" they had graduated to putting an asymmetric tooth in the middle of a Klingon dog's jawline instead.
Idiosyncratic, perhaps. (I do know a bit about that.Brainbin said:
) It stopped being small long ago.I do recognize the name, as you mention it, but if I heard it somewhere, I wouldn't place it with "TOS".Brainbin said:
As an aside, do you suppose there could have been a show like "TOS" (or "DS9"/"1999") in the '60s without Gene?Brainbin said:
The greater emphasis on space, & the Moon, might lead to an earlier grasp of the idea of impact events, since lunar craters were all made that way. (OTL, the evidence wasn't found until Alvarez uncovered the iridium layer in 1980.)Brainbin said:
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Terry Nation pitched a show featuring the Space Security Service and the Daleks to NBC in 1967. Without Star Trek, maybe that could get made.
Cheers,
Nigel
Thande
Donor
I don't think that date is a coincidence. I think it's a consequence of Star Trek, not something that would have happened anyway.
You should really feel sorry for the Story Editor in between John D.F. Black and D.C. Fontana - his name was Steven W. Carabatsos, and he served in that position for the majority of the first season, writing two episodes (unfortunately for him, both were thoroughly average: "Court Martial" and "Operation -- Annihilate!"). He also revised "Miri" and was one of many who worked on "The City on the Edge of Forever"). He's one of those people whom nobody ever seems to remember in connection with Star Trek."
The Guy is obscure. He does not even have a Wikipedia page
"But really, isn't that what Doctor Who is known for? Other than the wobbly sets, of course
Don't start making fun of Doctor Who wobby set or we the Doctor Who fans will make fun of Star Trek fake looking planet set with the cardboard Rock.
"I like your story idea, but unfortunately, I'm not writing an ASB timeline
How ASB is it? Ellison did go to talk to the Producers at Paramount in the OTL. So he must have been willing to considered it.
"That's a very salient point - another theory which, from my perspective, seems to have been around forever (the asteroid killing the dinosaurs - we even know where the crater is nowadays), but is actually relatively recent (hence the famous question, "What killed the dinosaurs?"). Who knows which alternate theory Star Trek might choose?
I thought the Dinosaurs will kill when the Cargo Ship crashed into earth and the anti mater engines exploded killing off the Dinosaurs as well Adric.
I wonder if there will be a voyager series in This timeline and would the producers use instead the Silurians?
I'm not even sure there will be Trek series other than OTL Trek--even if there are, Voyager OTL was the mid-90s, way, way after the POD--and, in fact, after Brainbin's declared 1986 stopping point.
The Special Space Service appeared in Dr Who in The Dalek's Master Plan (broadcast Nov 65 to Jan 66). Nation first pitched the pilot to the BBC in 1966 as a series that could also be sold to the US. It was only after they turned him down that he went to NBC. Maybe that latter move was dependent on Star Trek, but the idea for the pilot itself looks like it evolved independently.
Cheers,
Nigel.
Thande
Donor
Maybe he meant just in a vague sense, like a Star Trek sequel based around the idea of flinging a ship a long way away and into a new unfamiliar territory with new races as it has to fend for itself and get home. Probably too similar to Lost in Space though (that joke was even made for OTL Voyager and that was decades after Lost in Space!)
If I ever get my Step by Step time line up and to the 1990's there will be a Version of Voyager but in that time line everone will be compering it to Buck Rogers. In the Step by Step time line the 1970's Buck Rogers will end up with some of the creators of Blake 7( Blake never happen it the Time line) and so Buck is a very dark show with the real Bastards as the Heroes.
Thande
Donor
I thought for a moment you meant you had a TL about the 90s American dom-com Step By Step...
No It a timeline I working on, Full title: Step by Step how Stop Motion Animation changed the World.
A outline of the Hollywood side of things till 1950's is up on this page
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=252274
Please read the postings and Let me know what you think.
Thank you