That Wacky Redhead

[unclepatrick]

I believe that JMS will still create Babylon 5. But it is also possible that he is not forced to change certain plot elements of the series.

JMS would still run into problems with the Actors and some will leave the show even if he does not have the production problems that plague the original show.
It should be easier for his to get the show off the ground and sell as a five year project with the sucess of the Sci fi in this time line.

I wonder if instead of Slider, this universe would get Geogre R Martin series Doorways instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorways

 

[unclepatrick]

I remember a article in a issue of Starlog on which David Gerrold discused a effort to make a film of his novel "Yesterday Children". Since he had more success with Star Trek, it likley that this film may have been made in the late 1970's , early 1980's.

He latter try to devolped a Star Wolf Tv series in the 1990's. It likley that he might have have more luck getting it made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wolf_(David_Gerrold)

If there is a STNG, would they have made his script Blood and Fire? It was turn down because of a qay character and a aids metaphor.
In the OTL, it was finally adapted as a Star Trek Phase 2 episode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtifyhPScCw

And did Gerrold go on to be script editor on Sid and Marty Krofft Land of the Lost. In the OTL, Gerrold was able to bring in some Science Fiction writers such as Larry Niven, Norman Spinrad, Ben Bova, and Thedore Sturgeon. The show quality drop starting the second season after Gerrold left. If He never was script editor on the show, would it have been any good.

 

[unclepatrick]

. I find it very likely that Re-Genesis would be a one-season wonder (not even Desilu was likely to nurse that through to three seasons). I am glad, however, to see the Questor Tapes which I found fascinating as a movie when I was young - I hope the series does well enough at least to make it to three seasons and thus more success in syndication.

Who stared in the Questor Tapes in this Timeline? Nimoy was originaly consider before Robert Foxworth


http://www.tvparty.com/70roddenberry3.html

I glad to see manix continuing. Can you save Harry O from being cancelled by Fred Silverman?

 

[Brainbin]

When last I responded to your comments, there were 896 posts, and now there are 943! So a very belated thanks to all of you for 900 posts! I remember a time, not so long ago, when I would rather desperately solicit even one comment from the seemingly apathetic AH.com masses, but now I'm awash with them! And I wouldn't have it any other way A very special thanks to those of you who have followed this wacky thread on its wacky journey from the very beginning - you know who you are. We're also closing on 75,000 views, and will certainly reach that threshold before the six-month anniversary of this thread (May 18), which is one more thing for me to celebrate. I've always prided myself on keeping up with questions and comments on this thread to the best of my ability, so without further delay...

Brilliantly put, Brainbin. I applaud your diplomacy.

Thank you At the very least, I don't think it prudent to discuss the legacy of someone who has never even been mentioned over the course of the timeline.

I don't think I will ever understand how Canadian producers think.

Like American producers, pretty much. Only they have to work with far fewer resources, a much smaller acting pool, and greater apathy from audiences.

The restriction wasn't 100%, at least not for children's programmes. I remember watching east-european cartoons such as Krtek the little Mole in the UK. There were also some dubbed live-action series, such as The White Horses (which the ever reliable Wikipedia states is actually a Yugoslav/West German production)

I've only ever seen the one Soviet cartoon, myself. I found it needlessly pretentious and overly blatant in its symbolism.

(For those who don't know what he's on about, Yarwood was a talented impressionist who was successful in the 1970s by imitating the PMs and other politicians, but obviously couldn't do Mrs Thatcher).

Welcome aboard, Thande! Thanks for commenting (three times!). It sounds very much like Yarwood is the British equivalent of Vaughn Meader, who was known for his impersonation of JFK, selling millions of comedy albums doing so, until he rather suddenly found his act had expired - literally. His career, unfortunately, never recovered.

As for his popularity, his 1977 Christmas Show was the tenth most watched broadcast in the UK in the whole of the seventies (surprisingly edging Morcombe and Wise into eleventh place) . Note that the number one broadcast on that list has already been butterflied away ITTL.

Thank you very much for that list, Nigel. It will be an invaluable touchstone in helping me to determine the impact of alternate broadcasts ITTL.

Let's take a shot at this.

Interesting guesses, Nigel. I will confirm or deny nothing, except to say that you are not the first person to suggest Keith Joseph as Tory leader ITTL.

Anyway, turning into a bit of a rant again

At least this time I did open the floor to the subject And a lot of my British readers are echoing each other on major problems facing the British economy and society in the late 1970s and early 1980s, which gives me a profile of the subjects worth discussing in my future political updates.

Sure - there's plenty of possibilities. There's also the influence of the US to consider. For example, if a republican gets elected in 1976 and tries to implement Monetarism, the problems with it could be discovered before anyone tries it in the UK.

And which Republican did you have in mind?

But, as Brainbin keeps reminding us, this is not a political TL.

Thanks for remembering, TB-EI

Quick! Give us an Update to shut us up.

I was almost tempted to take you up on your offer and post a day earlier, but I will serve no update before its time

Also, just a note and rather off-topic, but...1000 posts!

Congratulations, e of pi. Thank you for sharing your milestone with TWR

Archive.org is your friend

Welcome aboard, hsthompson! Thanks for the link. I've heard a great deal about this timeline, and now I'll be able to read it.

She could go back into chemistry and work on more varieties of ice cream (no, really, that's what she did before going into politics). Somehow that seems very appropriate for the general sunny tone of this TL, picture Arthur Scargill toasting Mrs Thatcher as he bites the flake off his 99

That's a very intriguing idea, Thande. And I do find it appealing, because I'm a man who loves his ice cream, and it looks like Mrs Thatcher had an important hand in making it more enjoyable for all of us. Who knows what the future holds? (And by the way, to answer your earlier question: yes it did help, thank you very much )

Is it a given this even happens? I recognize a policy change away from Israel, let alone so soon after POD, is improbable; even a small change might have material impact, perhaps enough to mitigate, or even butterfly, this.

This is where the foreshadowing comes into play. Humphrey has to take a hardline against the Arabs in support of their ally, because he has expended all of his foreign policy capital on resolving the overseas quagmire. Especially since the Republicans and the Scoop Jackson Democrats, taken together, now form a majority in both houses of Congress. Therefore, the Arabs impose the embargo on the United States, which results in the Oil Crisis, and coupled with a bear market, welcome to a new recession!

I think that Brainbin has already refered to the Oil Shock happening.

Indeed I did, though it was in the post about the space program, which was 7,000 words long, and I mentioned it very much as an aside, because this timeline is going to focus on the after-effects of that event, and how impacts popular culture, rather than the event itself.

A nice solid update. I find it very likely that Re-Genesis would be a one-season wonder (not even Desilu was likely to nurse that through to three seasons). I am glad, however, to see the Questor Tapes which I found fascinating as a movie when I was young - I hope the series does well enough at least to make it to three seasons and thus more success in syndication.

Thank you, Glen There are several reasons I'm giving Questor the shot ITTL - first of all, it never got one IOTL, unlike Genesis II (which was eventually resurrected as Andromeda); it was of a genre that was very popular in the 1970s (a Walking The Earth action-adventure series); and it would be able to avail itself of the famous Desilu backlot (in addition to Kirk's Rock and other famous location shoots). As for its original run? It will last at least as long as Re-Genesis

It's nice for many to see Kojak show up, though I think an actual Kojak series was more perturbable than most (not necessarily that Savales wouldn't have had a vehicle, maybe even a cop one), but I think it is still in the realm of possibility that it comes about.

After so valiantly fighting to keep Henry Winkler on Rock Around the Clock, and continuing to insist that Lis Sladen has an excellent chance of being cast for Sarah Jane Smith, you're that willing to write off Kojak? Well, to be honest, keeping it is actually more logical than it might seem. The original pilot movie that featured Kojak was based on a notorious, pre-POD case that was prime material for a fictional adaptation. Telly Savalas wants a regular series commitment, likes the idea of playing a detective... it seems a very natural fit to re-create the conditions of Kojak. Also, it provided me with the most famous catchphrase of the 1973-74 season, which is almost reason enough by itself

I'm actually a bit surprised that the Muppet Show went to Desilu. Not disappointed, mind, just surprised.

Nobody else would have bought it in the United States. In fact, one of Henson's principal backers IOTL, George Schlatter, has been thoroughly discredited ITTL (after tangling with none other than That Wacky Redhead herself). Luckily for Henson, Herb Solow remembers him from Star Trek, where his puppetry so moved the cast and crew (as well as audiences) that he's convinced there may be something to Henson's pitch of an all-puppet variety show (though with human special guests, of course).

Also, I probably would have faced a revolt if I hadn't sent The Muppet Show off to Desilu

I am also a bit surprised to see Mannix hanging in there - but then again, I am really not familiar with the OTL series, so can't comment as much.

Mannix lasted until 1975 IOTL, believe it or not. CBS doesn't have quite as many of their other hits, so they're even less likely to cancel it ITTL, because it's less expendable.

I think you need to get NBC some diversification of hits.

Frankly, it's something of a miracle that NBC is doing as well as it is ITTL. The mid-1970s were a very bad time for that network, and Fred Silverman jumping ship to them (after his tenures at CBS, then ABC), rather than being their salvation, nearly drove them into bankruptcy in 1980. It's difficult to overstate how miraculous their 1980s recovery, and then dominance, really was IOTL. They'd be considerably worse off without their "black shows", as both Bill Cosby and Flip Wilson lead into two other hit shows (the Monday Night Movie and Ironside, respectively; none of these shows were in the Top 30 in this season IOTL). This is partly because all three of their "black shows" also have very large white audiences. It's not a perfect comparison with the OTL "black networks" of FOX and then UPN, which did genuinely attract disproportionately "urban" viewers. But the 1970s were a far less politically correct era than the 1990s, and so detractors are more willing and able to make themselves heard.

Splendid update! Nice to see demographic changes in an ATL...

Thank you very much! Demography is one of my other interests, partly because it ties so nicely into psephology (another of my other interests).

Brilliant update!

Thanks, vultan

I wonder, if he could form a creature shop analogue earlier than OTL, and start doing even more extensive work in TV and the movies, could he have a popular legacy that more accurately reflects the full body of his work?

This is a very good question, and it certainly speaks to me, as an admirer of practical effects. The obvious difference is that any Creature Shop would be based in Los Angeles, not London, as that is where The Muppet Show will be filmed for the duration of its run (well, technically Desilu is in Culver City, but you get the idea). But all that obviously hinges on whether The Muppet Show will be the runaway success ITTL that it was IOTL, and how That Wacky Redhead, as opposed to Lew Grade, will respond to that.

He could try it out if buoyed by the success of The Muppet Show. Then again, if it's produced in the near future of the timeline, it would more than likely end up as a pilot that's not picked up for a full series order.

One thing worth noting is that although Henson and his crew kept fairly busy during the production of The Muppet Show IOTL, he may not have that opportunity so soon ITTL. They're going to have to produce 26 episodes in 39 weeks (compared to 24 per year for ATV), in addition to their other commitments elsewhere.

Anyway, about the mini-boom in birth rates. I assume that, in addition to it not being as numerically significant as the Baby Boom, it's also a lot shorter, sandwiched between the tumultuous 1960's and the crappy economy of the mid-to-late 1970's.

You are correct, sir! The "Mini-Boom" lasts from 1970 to 1974, though some demographers claim 1969 as the starting point instead.

Keep up the fantastic work, Brainbin!

I'll certainly do my best, especially if you keep up the encouraging words

As always, a fascinating and detailed story! I wish I was as versed on the ins and outs of TV as you are.

Thank you, Orville_third. It's been very nice, these last few months, putting these seemingly trivial interest of mine to constructive use

Interesting post - I wonder what Lew Grade and ATV will do without the Muppet Show. Being made in the US, the show is obviously going to have a different list of Guest stars (for example I'd guess that Bruce Forsyth wouldn't appear).

Thank you. I can guarantee that Chris Langham will never appear on The Muppet Show, that's for sure.

Speaking of Dr Who and the Mini-Boom - IOTL Connie Booth and John Cleese had a daughter in Feb 1971. Presumably, Connie's appearance on Dr Who will have changed that.

Excellent observation. Cynthia Cleese will indeed not be born on ITTL; that makes her the first person I've explicitly butterflied away, and all on account of That Wacky Redhead!

I also wonder what happened to Katy Manning's career ITTL. Presumably she remained a theatre actress. There obviously won't be that infamous photo-shoot with a Dalek ITTL !

When in doubt, keep them in the theatre. British actors, especially, seem to be happier there anyway

So essentially this Mini-boom is of similar proportions to the Echo Boom that produced the Millenials (though obviously the character of the generation will be very different, they both seem to be of similar size)? Hmm. A larger generation in the early to mid 70s (smaller but at least comparable to the Boomers) would seem to dilute some of the cutlural effects that the dominance of the Boomers has had IOTL, which could be interesting. For instance (and I know this is way beyond the scope of the TL, but it's what occurs to me) there'd be less issue with the Boomers all turning 65 near the same time and starting to collect Social Security if there's a ~15-20 year young cohort of at least comparable size that's still at its prime working years. Obviously about 40 years away from the present moment of the TL, and about 25-30 years beyond the end you've set for the coverage, but it occurs to me. It's an interesting (perhaps even intriguing) demographic effect.

A very well-reasoned hypothesis. The Echo Boom (the generation to which I belong, incidentally) was an inspiration in devising the "Mini-Boom", but it was also partly a means of addressing the present-day problem of aging Baby Boomers. And indeed, ITTL, these Boomers would have probably gone into early retirement, rather than continuing to work past 65, allowing the Mini-Boomers, who are just entering middle age, to be promoted into their positions, thus opening up entry- and mid-level positions for younger generations. And this analysis inspired me to do some very quick number-crunching on my preliminary figures, and ITTL, during the years 1969-74, there have been an additional 4.6 million live births, an increase of 22.5% from OTL. If you remove 1969 from the equation, the increase for the remaining years goes well above 25% (over 4.5 million live births).

Intriguing as ever, Brainbin.

Kojak and The Muppets make it to air. Who loves ya BB? We do!

Thank you, thank you What can I say? I do my best to give the people what they want!

Hopefully Grade still takes a hand with The Muppets, even if only as overseas distributor.

I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that he would be first in line for the opportunity.

Let me join the chorus of praise. Nice work, as usual. (I think I'd be surprised if it wasn't.)

Thank you very much, phx. I must say I'm a little surprised that you didn't have more to say, but sometimes less is more

I never noticed the "childless" shows trend, tho (at the time) I did like the fact Mary & Rhoda weren't the seeming cliche "married with kids". Nor was Maude the cliche wife. (I especially liked her.)

You probably didn't notice because, IOTL, it was actually reflective of societal changes at the time. The Silent Generation wasn't having kids at nearly the same rate as the Greatest Generation. And Boomers obviously didn't settle down right away. Here, the urge to settle down and start a family is much stronger in TTL society; even the hippies being urged to "get a real job" are likelier to actually do it, because jobs are plentiful in the good economy (the same is obviously true of those formerly disgruntled college students). Family values critics notice this, and are unsurprisingly dismayed at the lack of nuclear families on television. We'll have to see how this affects the studios and the networks - and, more importantly, their productions - in the longer run.

Nigel - sang this to my kids - they liked it.

How did you get the second line to fit the meter?

Another awesome update, as per usual. I'm really looking forward to the 1980s and 90s, myself. Curious to see what the future holds for Star Trek, and curious to see what'll become of shows like SeaQuest DSV and Babylon 5 as well.

Thank you, PW MAX! Glad to know you're still reading

I just came upon this article. How is the Laugh Track in this TL? How is animation for that matter? Has Disney changed?

Relatively few changes from OTL on all fronts. The laugh track is in decline, in favour of live studio audiences; animation remains highly limited, with one of the finest examples in terms of quality during the early 1970s IOTL (Star Trek TAS, of course) sadly missing, making the picture even more bleak in comparison; and Uncle Walt died on schedule, thus leaving his studio in creative shambles. Robin Hood, released around this time ITTL and IOTL, is replete with recycled animation, for example.

(By the 1980's, all eyes are on J. Michael Straczynski...)

Hold that thought; we may yet come back to it.

Does he still write "The Complete Book of Scriptwriting"? (I have a copy- and it's excellent!)

Assuming that he becomes a scriptwriter, it may well be possible. I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

I believe that JMS will still create Babylon 5. But it is also possible that he is not forced to change certain plot elements of the series.

I'm glad this update has brought so many of my old regulars out of the woodwork! As to whether or not he creates Babylon 5, it's hard to say. Something that all of you need to take into account is that he was only 12 years old at the POD. How many ideas did you have when you were twelve that you held onto?

Agree with what others have said about an excellent update. I have forgotten about the lolly-pop addict, a real blast from the past. Also good to see the Muppets surviving.

Thank you, Steve

Finally caught up on this timeline. Great job.

Thank you very much, Patrick! I appreciate your interest. Now, I won't be able to answer all of your many questions, because some of them will be covered in future updates, possibly as soon as within this cycle, but I will address some of them. But I do appreciate them, and I hope to eventually answer as many of them as possible.

What other British Sci fi Show make primetime?

UFO was first broadcast by CBS in the 1972-73 season. The second season, UFO 1999, aired on that network the following year. These are the only two seasons featuring Michael Billington, also known as the next James Bond, thus making him familiar to American audiences (similarly to Roger Moore, who appeared as The Saint).

I am looking forward to futher parts of this timeline.

And I look forward to writing them

With regard to my beloved B5, J. Michael is still likely ITTL to get into TV at which point he is likely to think about how to keep costs on an SF series down which is likely to lead him to the space station idea for a series. He also by nature seems to like long story/plot archs so that is likely to be seen as well. He probably will come up something akin to B5.

I repeat for emphasis: He is 12 years old at the POD. He will be coming of age in a society rather different from that of OTL. He may well become a professional writer (many writers tend to start writing at a very young age, hence the proliferation of juvenilia), but this is far from guaranteed. He may well feel increased pressure to "get a real job", as so many creative-class types will ITTL, relative to our own. That's something to bear in mind with regards to his career trajectory.

Who stared in the Questor Tapes in this Timeline? Nimoy was originaly consider before Robert Foxworth

Foxworth has the role ITTL (for lack of a better replacement coming to mind). The memories of Star Trek are too fresh for Nimoy to agree to another series commitment, and besides, his side hobby of directing is very rapidly evolving into a career of its own. And playing Questor's human sidekick? Wayne Rogers

And there we are! All caught up. The next update should be ready in a couple of days. Until then!

 

[Glen]

On my point as to some surprise that a show named Kojak starring Telly Savalas shows up - The creator of the show, Abby Mann, did not originate the idea of the TV movie but rather was approached by Universal Television to do the project - it is possible, but this is a very perturbable event as either Universal Television execs may not come up with the idea and/or might approach someone other than Mann, especially given the number of changes you've put into effect in the American studios by this time.

The character of Kojak (originally Kojack) was a composite character, not inspired by any one real life character. This is another perturbable event that could easily have resulted in all sorts of different takes on the lead detective, and of course could have all sorts of different names.

Also, apparently Telly Savalas was not the first choice for the role, and if he had thought he'd be in a series may not have taken it - he was apparently very leery of committing to a television series as this would have meant committing a great deal of time to just one character.

Put this all together, it just seems like it is a lower probability event to happen in both timelines. Note, however, there is nothing in particular that would actually bar it from happening so similarly to OTL. Just enough to say it is a bit surprising that it all came together that way.

Note that I am in no way complaining about it happening - just making an observation.

 

[Glen]

Good point about the 'Walking the Earth' theme for The Questor Tapes, as well as the Desilu backlot being put to good use.

 

[Lord Insane]

I've only ever seen the one Soviet cartoon, myself. I found it needlessly pretentious and overly blatant in its symbolism.

I don't know about Soviet cartoons, but the Yugoslavs had greater success. But then, if you're willing to co-produce with West Germans on multiple occasions, you're probably not all that blatant with your symbolism (leaving aside that Worker & Parasite isn't actually a real Soviet cartoon).

Balt, Balthazar...

 

[THE OBSERVER]

Brainbin,

I hope the next update is about Doctor Who. No one else can play the Fourth Doctor so memorably as Tom Baker and Elizabeth Sladen should join the cast as Sarah Jane Smith, but stay a little longer on the show ITTL. Please make it happen. And will the next update be coming up soon?

 

[phx1138]

Before I reply to anything or anybody, I wanted to put his link up, Boxofficemojo, so I won't forget. It's a very incomplete list of movie box office receipts.

Even so, I imagine it will still make you laugh: a film earning $970 in total receipts. One earning $113 for all of 1981 (tho, to be fair, it was an Ed Wood production). And some surprises: "Lady Jane" (Helena Bonham-Carter) made only $277000.

It also reveals my favorite name for a film ever: "Skank Robbers".

Enjoy.

 

[NCW8]

I've only ever seen the one Soviet cartoon, myself. I found it needlessly pretentious and overly blatant in its symbolism.

Ah yes, the Soviet version of Itchy and Scratchy. Krtek doesn't have a lot of symbolism, but it's probably fair to say that East European cartoons tend to be more works of art than pure commercial ventures. Miler certainly didn't believe in mass production.

Interesting guesses, Nigel. I will confirm or deny nothing, except to say that you are not the first person to suggest Keith Joseph as Tory leader ITTL.

I thought that he might fit your modus opeerandi. He could easily have had a very different career if he hadn't made one speech.

And which Republican did you have in mind?

I couldn't possibly comment ! Actually guessing possible British party leaders is fairly easy, as they've usually served as ministers or shadow ministers in the previous decade. Ameerican Presidential candidates can pop up from anywhere.

Thank you. I can guarantee that Chris Langham will never appear on The Muppet Show, that's for sure.

Maybe William Shatner could appear - they could do some Star Trek-based sketches, like they did with Mark Hammill and Star Wars IOTL.

How did you get the second line to fit the meter?

I thought that it was the last line that didn't quite work. I guess that I'll have to keep the day job.

Glen - I'm glad your kids liked it at least.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[phx1138]

closing on 75,000 views

You're going to need to hire somebody to climb those golden arches & change the numbers soon.

Like American producers, pretty much. Only they have to work with far fewer resources, a much smaller acting pool, and greater apathy from audiences.

I find Klingons make more sense.

which Republican did you have in mind?

Arianna Huffington? (I'd say Arnold, but machines aren't allowed to run for President. {Oh, wait, I forgot about Gore.})

That's a very intriguing idea, Thande. And I do find it appealing, because I'm a man who loves his ice cream, and it looks like Mrs Thatcher had an important hand in making it more enjoyable for all of us.

I definitely agree on the second part. As for Thatcher & ice cream... That's one I have real trouble imagining. (Of course, I still can't quite figure out why Jeri Ryan isn't doing molecular biology somewhere. I am glad she's not, mind...)

This is where the foreshadowing comes into play. Humphrey has to take a hardline against the Arabs in support of their ally, because he has expended all of his foreign policy capital on resolving the overseas quagmire. Especially since the Republicans and the Scoop Jackson Democrats, taken together, now form a majority in both houses of Congress. Therefore, the Arabs impose the embargo on the United States, which results in the Oil Crisis, and coupled with a bear market, welcome to a new recession!

So the fork in the road still went through Hooverville... (so to speak). Ah, well, it can't all be rainbows & kittens.

after-effects of that event, and how impacts popular culture

Which reminds me: have you at all thought of the influence of cars on film & TV? I don't see TTL Hollywood avoiding car chases or anything, but does the Oil Shock change which cars get spotlighted or used? Frex, the 460 Torino of "Starsky & Hutch" swapped for a 289 Falcon, or something. (To be clear: not demanding such details, only wondering if you thought about it at all; a "yes/no" will about do it.)

based on a notorious, pre-POD case that was prime material for a fictional adaptation

More than that, the case was coming up for a very serious re-examination around the time the original script was written. What TTL's "Kojack" (the original spelling OTL) could address (which OTL's didn't AFAIK) is the deeper issues of abuses of authority. Is that too "Police Story"? Which, as I think of it, is also right around the corner & about to revolutionize cop dramas. (Also one of my favorite cop shows.)

most famous catchphrase of the 1973-74 season, which is almost reason enough by itself

One of the most famous ever IMO. Savalas makes it work for him.

Mannix lasted until 1975 IOTL

And helped inspire at least one other TV detective show, let's not forget: a certain guy in a trailer. (Also, perhaps, Magnum &, unfortunately, Matt Houston, too.)

nearly drove them into bankruptcy in 1980.

I have a feeling, "Hill Street", among others, were a bit of a Hail Mary, then, & it worked for them.

When in doubt, keep them in the theatre. British actors, especially, seem to be happier there anyway

'pears Canadians are pretty happy there, too, if they're not all in L.A.

Thank you very much, phx. I must say I'm a little surprised that you didn't have more to say, but sometimes less is more

You caught me at the end of a very long day, & not feeling really like saying much of anything. As I look back, most of what I might wonder (Does "Maude" run longer or shorter, frex) will be answered in due course, so...

You probably didn't notice because, IOTL, it was actually reflective of societal changes at the time. The Silent Generation wasn't having kids at nearly the same rate as the Greatest Generation. And Boomers obviously didn't settle down right away.

There was also, for me, a dislike of kids, so the "family" shows were ones I tended to avoid. "Dick van Dyke" was on the cusp of that; if Mary'd had kids, good chance I wouldn't have been watching. (Then again, my mom really liked it, & we only had the one TV... Not the only reason I watched "Streets of San Francisco", but...)

likelier to actually do it, because jobs are plentiful in the good economy

Are they? It seems to me, if you've got plenty of options, being more a "floater" is both appealing & easier: seller's market, so to speak.

playing Questor's human sidekick? Wayne Rogers

I feel sorry for him. Always the sidekick. (Does this mean no "City of Angels"? Please, please don't do that.)

 

[pbaustin2]

How's the anti-nuclear movement doing in popular culture?
Are there any TWR-TL equivilents of When the Wind Blows, The Day After and Threads?

 

[Falkenburg]

Maybe William Shatner could appear - they could do some Star Trek-based sketches, like they did with Mark Hammill and Star Wars IOTL.

This. Very much this. Please?

Kirk....Shatner (Obviously)
Mr Spock...(Sam the Eagle)
Bones...(Fozzie)
Nurse Chapel...(Miss Piggy)
Uhura...(Janice)
Scotty...(Rolf)
Sulu...(Gonzo)
Chekov...(Scooter)

Got to have Animal play a Klingon, too!

Falkenburg

 

[Glen]

I sang Nigel's Dalek ditty to my wife who also quite enjoyed it, and I will oncur with Nigel that it is the last line that is the hardest to fit in.

 

[Kalvan]

This. Very much this. Please?

Kirk....Shatner (Obviously)
Mr Spock...(Sam the Eagle)
Bones...(Fozzie)
Nurse Chapel...(Miss Piggy)
Uhura...(Janice)
Scotty...(Rolf)
Sulu...(Gonzo)
Chekov...(Scooter)

Got to have Animal play a Klingon, too!

Falkenburg

Frankly, I'd have chosen Skeeter for Chapel and Miss Piggy for Uhura, and switched around Fozzie and Scooter.

 

[Falkenburg]

Frankly, I'd have chosen Skeeter for Chapel and Miss Piggy for Uhura, and switched around Fozzie and Scooter.

You, sir, are obviously unhinged.

Scooter is far too lightweight to even approach the depth of meaning Fozzie can convey with a single "Wakka, Wakka!".

To my mind Janice could more eloquently convey the sultry intellect of Uhura. Skeeter just doesn't cut it for me.
Piggy fits well with the Chapel role, after all her main squeeze is the man (or rather Frog) in charge.

Falkenburg

 

[NCW8]

Scooter is far too lightweight to even approach the depth of meaning Fozzie can convey with a single "Wakka, Wakka!".

I've got to agree with that.

I'd also cast the Swedish Chef as Scotty: "Heedee hadee dilithium. Heedee hadee hammer ..."

To my mind Janice could more eloquently convey the sultry intellect of Uhura. Skeeter just doesn't cut it for me.
Piggy fits well with the Chapel role, after all her main squeeze is the man (or rather Frog) in charge.

Yes, Piggy has got to have a chance to flirt with Kirk. How about casting her as Janice Rand ? Imagine Miss Piggy in that beehive hairdo.

Tune in next week, when we'll hear Captain Kirk say: "Beam me up, Mr Kyle".

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Brainbin]

Now is the time that I can officially say thank you for 75,000 views! So thank you Also worth noting: this marks my 150th post to this thread!

The character of Kojak (originally Kojack)

What TTL's "Kojack" (the original spelling OTL)

I knew there was something I had overlooked! Yes, his (and the show's) name is also Kojack ITTL.

Good point about the 'Walking the Earth' theme for The Questor Tapes, as well as the Desilu backlot being put to good use.

Thank you. You'll note that a number of the shows on Desilu's roster will likely avail themselves of the backlot, given their premises. This is the handiwork of Robert H. Justman, who wants to get the most out of their use. The backlot also features guided tours during the off-season, as many of its buildings were used in iconic Golden Age films (most notably Gone with the Wind). In short, we're looking at the most famous backlot in Hollywood (sadly demolished in 1976 IOTL).

I don't know about Soviet cartoons, but the Yugoslavs had greater success. But then, if you're willing to co-produce with West Germans on multiple occasions, you're probably not all that blatant with your symbolism (leaving aside that Worker & Parasite isn't actually a real Soviet cartoon).

Having no personal experience with the cartoons in question, I'll take your word for it. But it doesn't surprise me, since as we know, the Yugoslavs, though Communist, were outside of the Soviet sphere of influence. As for Worker & Parasite, I always enjoy looking back on the days when The Simpsons were great.

No one else can play the Fourth Doctor so memorably as Tom Baker and Elizabeth Sladen should join the cast as Sarah Jane Smith, but stay a little longer on the show ITTL. Please make it happen. And will the next update be coming up soon?

Another vote for Tom Baker and Lis Sladen. I sympathize, you guys, I really do. If I could have done a crossover between Star Trek in season 5 and the seasons 12-13 cast of Doctor Who, I would have; it just so happened that Jon Pertwee was playing the role at the time that a crossover was most viable, so he came along for the ride.

Before I reply to anything or anybody, I wanted to put his link up, Boxofficemojo, so I won't forget. It's a very incomplete list of movie box office receipts.

Thank you for the link, it will supplement my other resources nicely. And it will come in useful very soon

Maybe William Shatner could appear - they could do some Star Trek-based sketches, like they did with Mark Hammill and Star Wars IOTL.

Not an unreasonable suggestion. The Muppet Show will still be lacking in relative star power in its first season, just as it was IOTL, due to many celebrities being skeptical and/or dismissive. Shatner is definitely over-the-hill by 1974-75, not to mention flat broke, but he does have a direct connection to Desilu, and they could arrange something. Any Star Trek parody (a direct one, as opposed to more diluted "Pigs in Space") would of course stand as one of the earliest in television history ITTL (though not that early, of course - probably along the lines of the OTL classic "The Last Voyage of the Starship Enterprise", from 1976; landmark, but not exactly pioneering).

You're going to need to hire somebody to climb those golden arches & change the numbers soon.

I wonder if I should care to try for 80,000 before the six-month anniversary?

So the fork in the road still went through Hooverville... (so to speak). Ah, well, it can't all be rainbows & kittens.

Very true. As I have said myriad times by this point: I'm not writing a utopia! And I did (briefly) imply that not all was well in the Near East (and really, when is it, ever?)

Which reminds me: have you at all thought of the influence of cars on film & TV? I don't see TTL Hollywood avoiding car chases or anything, but does the Oil Shock change which cars get spotlighted or used? Frex, the 460 Torino of "Starsky & Hutch" swapped for a 289 Falcon, or something. (To be clear: not demanding such details, only wondering if you thought about it at all; a "yes/no" will about do it.)

Excellent question. I will elaborate on one example: the Ford Mustang, that most iconic of muscle cars. IOTL, the much poorer economy of the early 1970s resulted in Mustang sales continually declining after 1966; ITTL, on the other hand, they level off in 1969, at about 300,000 units produced per year until 1973. Whether Lee Iacocca would have still been prepared to release a more fuel-efficient model for 1974 and thus catch the wave of the Oil Crisis even ITTL is far beyond my expertise, but if not, his company has a very bad 1974, only to recover the following year with new model Mustang. (The Oil Crisis, as IOTL, also works to mitigate some aspects of 1950s cultural nostalgia).

One of the most famous ever IMO. Savalas makes it work for him.

And since it was the 1970s, he even released a novelty single featuring his famous catchphrase. What a glorious decade that was

And helped inspire at least one other TV detective show, let's not forget: a certain guy in a trailer.

Yes, and that just so happens to be one of my last remaining outstanding requests!

I have a feeling, "Hill Street", among others, were a bit of a Hail Mary, then, & it worked for them.

Your feeling is correct. The miraculous resurrection of NBC was simply remarkable - one of those things someone might call ASB if it were written into a timeline.

As I look back, most of what I might wonder (Does "Maude" run longer or shorter, frex) will be answered in due course, so...

You are correct, sir! The late 1970s are going to fun to write, for that very reason.

Are they? It seems to me, if you've got plenty of options, being more a "floater" is both appealing & easier: seller's market, so to speak.

Societal expectations can be powerful. This is partly the reason why working women didn't really "take" until the 1980s; the notion hadn't really "settled" yet in the 1970s.

How's the anti-nuclear movement doing in popular culture?

Excellent question. We'll be getting into that later in the decade.

Are there any TWR-TL equivilents of When the Wind Blows, The Day After and Threads?

I'm afraid you're getting way ahead of yourself. Patience, grasshopper

Kirk....Shatner (Obviously)
Mr Spock...(Sam the Eagle)
Bones...(Fozzie)
Nurse Chapel...(Miss Piggy)
Uhura...(Janice)
Scotty...(Rolf)
Sulu...(Gonzo)
Chekov...(Scooter)

Got to have Animal play a Klingon, too!

And what about Mr. Kyle? What is he, chopped liver?

You, sir, are obviously unhinged.

Pay him no mind, Kalvan; he likes to throw that adjective around, even at people who have a great deal of power over this timeline. But I am glad you're still reading

Yes, Piggy has got to have a chance to flirt with Kirk. How about casting her as Janice Rand ? Imagine Miss Piggy in that beehive hairdo.

I doubt anyone but the hardest-core Trekkies even remember Janice Rand ITTL. You're likelier to get Lt. Cmdr. Mulhall or Lt. Martine to make an appearance. Even among Yeomen, Tamura would probably spring to mind faster than Rand. Like I said before, 10/135 is far less significant than 10/79.

Tune in next week, when we'll hear Captain Kirk say: "Beam me up, Mr Kyle".

Nice use of the catchphrase! Though, as IOTL, it's technically incorrect: the closest Kirk comes to saying it is "Beam us up, Mr. Kyle".

The next update, assuming all goes well, should be ready tomorrow.

 

[unclepatrick]

Any possibility of a Fourth Doctor/Questor crossover?

 

[Glen]

Now is the time that I can officially say thank you for 75,000 views! So thank you Also worth noting: this marks my 150th post to this thread!

Congrats!

I knew there was something I had overlooked! Yes, his (and the show's) name is also Kojack ITTL.

Sounds good!

Thank you. You'll note that a number of the shows on Desilu's roster will likely avail themselves of the backlot, given their premises. This is the handiwork of Robert H. Justman, who wants to get the most out of their use. The backlot also features guided tours during the off-season, as many of its buildings were used in iconic Golden Age films (most notably Gone with the Wind). In short, we're looking at the most famous backlot in Hollywood (sadly demolished in 1976 IOTL).

Ooh, have Desilu pull a Universal!

Having no personal experience with the cartoons in question, I'll take your word for it. But it doesn't surprise me, since as we know, the Yugoslavs, though Communist, were outside of the Soviet sphere of influence. As for Worker & Parasite, I always enjoy looking back on the days when The Simpsons were great.

Got me, too!

Another vote for Tom Baker and Lis Sladen. I sympathize, you guys, I really do. If I could have done a crossover between Star Trek in season 5 and the seasons 12-13 cast of Doctor Who, I would have; it just so happened that Jon Pertwee was playing the role at the time that a crossover was most viable, so he came along for the ride.

Of course, as we have Telly Savalas ans Kojack then it makes Tom and Lis look better for Doctor Who.

Thank you for the link, it will supplement my other resources nicely. And it will come in useful very soon

Not an unreasonable suggestion. The Muppet Show will still be lacking in relative star power in its first season, just as it was IOTL, due to many celebrities being skeptical and/or dismissive. Shatner is definitely over-the-hill by 1974-75, not to mention flat broke, but he does have a direct connection to Desilu, and they could arrange something. Any Star Trek parody (a direct one, as opposed to more diluted "Pigs in Space") would of course stand as one of the earliest in television history ITTL (though not that early, of course - probably along the lines of the OTL classic "The Last Voyage of the Starship Enterprise", from 1976; landmark, but not exactly pioneering).

]I look forward to the Shatner guest appearance on this Muppet Show - maybe also a parody of his Twilight Zone episode. Maybe the appearance can rekindle some interest in Shatner.

I wonder if I should care to try for 80,000 before the six-month anniversary?

Go for it!

Very true. As I have said myriad times by this point: I'm not writing a utopia! And I did (briefly) imply that not all was well in the Near East (and really, when is it, ever?)

Excellent question. I will elaborate on one example: the Ford Mustang, that most iconic of muscle cars. IOTL, the much poorer economy of the early 1970s resulted in Mustang sales continually declining after 1966; ITTL, on the other hand, they level off in 1969, at about 300,000 units produced per year until 1973. Whether Lee Iacocca would have still been prepared to release a more fuel-efficient model for 1974 and thus catch the wave of the Oil Crisis even ITTL is far beyond my expertise, but if not, his company has a very bad 1974, only to recover the following year with new model Mustang. (The Oil Crisis, as IOTL, also works to mitigate some aspects of 1950s cultural nostalgia).

You should do a car one!

And since it was the 1970s, he even released a novelty single featuring his famous catchphrase. What a glorious decade that was

Could do with a little less of that.

Yes, and that just so happens to be one of my last remaining outstanding requests!

Your feeling is correct. The miraculous resurrection of NBC was simply remarkable - one of those things someone might call ASB if it were written into a timeline.

Have to look that up some more.

You are correct, sir! The late 1970s are going to fun to write, for that very reason.

Societal expectations can be powerful. This is partly the reason why working women didn't really "take" until the 1980s; the notion hadn't really "settled" yet in the 1970s.

Excellent question. We'll be getting into that later in the decade.

I'm afraid you're getting way ahead of yourself. Patience, grasshopper

And what about Mr. Kyle? What is he, chopped liver?

Pay him no mind, Kalvan; he likes to throw that adjective around, even at people who have a great deal of power over this timeline. But I am glad you're still reading

I doubt anyone but the hardest-core Trekkies even remember Janice Rand ITTL. You're likelier to get Lt. Cmdr. Mulhall or Lt. Martine to make an appearance. Even among Yeomen, Tamura would probably spring to mind faster than Rand. Like I said before, 10/135 is far less significant than 10/79.

Nice use of the catchphrase! Though, as IOTL, it's technically incorrect: the closest Kirk comes to saying it is "Beam us up, Mr. Kyle".

The next update, assuming all goes well, should be ready tomorrow.

More later.