Just to be an arse i'd have one of the remaining KM ships hit by a mine and lose it's propulsion then the FAA find it.
The Whale has Wings
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
- Status
1315, the North Sea, over the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
The orders given to the strike leader had been simple and quite specific. Make sure that if you can't sink them, slow them down enough for them to be caught up. Concentrate on one ship first, only go for the second if the first looks like sinking - better to be certain of one of the twins than try for both and get nothing.
More carefully than they had been doing before their recent experiences, the pilots scanned the sky for any sight of the Luftwaffe. This time, the Goshawks stayed above the strike, ready to pounce if any German pilot was as unfriendly as to break into the entertainment they had planned for the Twins. First to go into their attack were the SeaLance torpedo planes. Considerably faster than the old Swordfish, their speed allowed them to close to range without exposing themselves to more enemy AA than they had to. As usual, they attacked in 2 groups of nine, in flights of three planes, targeting the closest battlecruiser, which happened to be the Gneisenau.
For such a large ship, she maneuvered with considerable skill and managed to avoid all nine of the torpedoes coming at her from the starboard quarter. Unfortunately against a classic hammer-and-anvil attack that made it more difficult to dodge the attack from the other side, and in a few minutes she had been hit by three torpedoes. Two hit forward of her centerline, causing damage and flooding, but nothing that couldn't be handled. The third, though, was much more critical. It hit aft, close to where one of the ships propeller shafts entered the hull, the shock damaging and distorting the shaft, rendering it useless and also damaging one of the other propellers. The ships engineers cut power to that shaft as soon as they could, but it was clear there was no chance of it being used again without a long period in dock.
As the torpedo planes drew away to reform, the dive bombers dove in. Again, they all targeting the Gneisenau. Despite her shaft damage, the ship was still snaking and trying to avoid the falling 1,000lb bombs, something she did quite successfully. Sadly in this case quite wasn't good enough.
The first bomb hit the Gneisenau close to her aircraft, causing considerable damage and starting an aviation fuel fire. The explosion and the fires also caused serious injury and damage to the adjacent AA guns and their crews. The second hit her on her port secondary batteries; wrecking the guns and again causing injuries to the AA crews. The final of the three hits was the most spectacular; hitting the deck just forward of A turret, the bomb exploded (fortunately without penetrating the 11" magazine) with enough force to raise up the front of the turret and jam it into immobility, as well as leaving a rather impressive hole in the deck.
Two more bombs were close enough to cause splinter damage to the superstructure and any exposed crew, but no severe structural damage. The ship didn't stop, but had slowed drastically as thick clouds of smoke billowed from her deck and superstructure.
The planes departed with minimal losses; one torpedo plane and one diver bomber. It would seem that the Kriegsmarine's AA fire wasn't much more effective than that of the Royal Navy. As soon as the attack was completed, the planes headed back to the carriers, although one Sealance stayed on station to report.
The news that one of the battlecruisers had been seriously damaged and slowed was greeted with jubilation at the fleet. The question now was could they be intercepted by HMS Warspite and her consorts, or would this only be possible with another air strike? There was a certain amount of argument about this; there was also the issue of what would happen if the fleet, its position now known, was attacked while in the middle of spotting a full strike on deck. While losses so far had been thankfully low, the two carriers were now down to 28 fighters between them, and they had to maintain a CAP over the Warspite as well as the fleet. This was achievable, but would be much easier if the deck was clear for the fighters. It was also necessary to keep a flight of Swordfish in the air to keep any inquisitive U-boats firmly underwater.
In the end it was decided by the fact that Warspite was already closing with the damaged battlecruiser; the ships had been 'cutting the corner' in their interception, and would be in range in under an hour. As a result it was decided to plan another strike, but not launch it until the result of the Warspite's action was known, or if the damaged ship managed to regain enough speed to get away from the pursuing force.
The orders given to the strike leader had been simple and quite specific. Make sure that if you can't sink them, slow them down enough for them to be caught up. Concentrate on one ship first, only go for the second if the first looks like sinking - better to be certain of one of the twins than try for both and get nothing.
More carefully than they had been doing before their recent experiences, the pilots scanned the sky for any sight of the Luftwaffe. This time, the Goshawks stayed above the strike, ready to pounce if any German pilot was as unfriendly as to break into the entertainment they had planned for the Twins. First to go into their attack were the SeaLance torpedo planes. Considerably faster than the old Swordfish, their speed allowed them to close to range without exposing themselves to more enemy AA than they had to. As usual, they attacked in 2 groups of nine, in flights of three planes, targeting the closest battlecruiser, which happened to be the Gneisenau.
For such a large ship, she maneuvered with considerable skill and managed to avoid all nine of the torpedoes coming at her from the starboard quarter. Unfortunately against a classic hammer-and-anvil attack that made it more difficult to dodge the attack from the other side, and in a few minutes she had been hit by three torpedoes. Two hit forward of her centerline, causing damage and flooding, but nothing that couldn't be handled. The third, though, was much more critical. It hit aft, close to where one of the ships propeller shafts entered the hull, the shock damaging and distorting the shaft, rendering it useless and also damaging one of the other propellers. The ships engineers cut power to that shaft as soon as they could, but it was clear there was no chance of it being used again without a long period in dock.
As the torpedo planes drew away to reform, the dive bombers dove in. Again, they all targeting the Gneisenau. Despite her shaft damage, the ship was still snaking and trying to avoid the falling 1,000lb bombs, something she did quite successfully. Sadly in this case quite wasn't good enough.
The first bomb hit the Gneisenau close to her aircraft, causing considerable damage and starting an aviation fuel fire. The explosion and the fires also caused serious injury and damage to the adjacent AA guns and their crews. The second hit her on her port secondary batteries; wrecking the guns and again causing injuries to the AA crews. The final of the three hits was the most spectacular; hitting the deck just forward of A turret, the bomb exploded (fortunately without penetrating the 11" magazine) with enough force to raise up the front of the turret and jam it into immobility, as well as leaving a rather impressive hole in the deck.
Two more bombs were close enough to cause splinter damage to the superstructure and any exposed crew, but no severe structural damage. The ship didn't stop, but had slowed drastically as thick clouds of smoke billowed from her deck and superstructure.
The planes departed with minimal losses; one torpedo plane and one diver bomber. It would seem that the Kriegsmarine's AA fire wasn't much more effective than that of the Royal Navy. As soon as the attack was completed, the planes headed back to the carriers, although one Sealance stayed on station to report.
The news that one of the battlecruisers had been seriously damaged and slowed was greeted with jubilation at the fleet. The question now was could they be intercepted by HMS Warspite and her consorts, or would this only be possible with another air strike? There was a certain amount of argument about this; there was also the issue of what would happen if the fleet, its position now known, was attacked while in the middle of spotting a full strike on deck. While losses so far had been thankfully low, the two carriers were now down to 28 fighters between them, and they had to maintain a CAP over the Warspite as well as the fleet. This was achievable, but would be much easier if the deck was clear for the fighters. It was also necessary to keep a flight of Swordfish in the air to keep any inquisitive U-boats firmly underwater.
In the end it was decided by the fact that Warspite was already closing with the damaged battlecruiser; the ships had been 'cutting the corner' in their interception, and would be in range in under an hour. As a result it was decided to plan another strike, but not launch it until the result of the Warspite's action was known, or if the damaged ship managed to regain enough speed to get away from the pursuing force.
Needless to say, they were right about that. If you can't see why, take a beat to think.
The poles actually tried that...
Also: Go Warspite! *whistles, waves flags*
Derek Pullem
Donor
Yep, in OTL Swordfish substituted for ASW helos in WW2. They could fly slow and low and could carry a reasonable radar to detect snorkelling or surfaced subs. have seen a picture with a Swordfish fitted with one of those enormous MAD magnetic detector rings as per Liberators as well.
You may be confusing a magnetic induction loop with a fluxgate magnetometer. The Swordfish with ASV Mk II was another thing.
Derek Pullem
Donor
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+1]"If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it properly"[/SIZE][/FONT]
So far its very similar to OTL losses for the KM.
The fact the allies lost Norway tends to obscure the fact that it was a major disaster for the KM.
1530, the North Sea, Warspite and Gneisenau.
The decision for the German Admiral, while logical, was still terribly difficult to make. It was already clear that the Gneisenau was badly damaged, reduced to half the speed of her consort. If they stayed together, it was quite probably that both would be sunk. The harsh decision had to be made to leave her, and hope she could evade the British fleet until nightfall. Urgent and demanding messages had been sent, requesting the maximum air cover and also an airstrike on the British fleet, but as yet there were no signs of friendly aircraft. The last time the Scharnhorst saw her sister ship was the sight of her, still burning , disappearing over the horizon to the north as they made their way south at maximum speed. This was reported back to the British fleet. The Sealance was ordered to follow the Scharnhorst south as soon as the Warspite was in visual range of the burning battlecruiser.
The hits had initially slowed the Gneisenau down to 15 knots, but after an hour of desperate work her engineers had got her speed up to 20 knots. It was hoped that this would allow them to get far enough south that the threat of the Luftwaffe would keep them safe until dark. However the attack and the damage had lost her a lot of time, and when they sighted smoke to the north, it was clear that this time had run out. Nemesis, in the form of HMS Warspite and her escorts, had arrived.
The time was 1530. Since it was rational that the Luftwaffe would, if possible, try and stop the Warspite by an air attack, a CAP of 6 Goshawks was accompanying the force. Another 8 were circling the fleet, just in case. It was already becoming clear that the carriers needed more fighters, especially if the Luftwaffe started to take a serious interest in them.
At first the Gneisenau crew hoped that they could outrun the battleship, but although the engineers, by dint of a supreme effort, got her speed up to 22 knots the Warspite was closing (if slowly), opening fire at 26,000 yards. A final hope that they would be under the cover of night, or at least the Luftwaffe, soon was dashed as the British ship, at a range of no less that 25,000yards, scored a direct hit on the Gneisenau. The heavy 15" shell drove down through the ship's deck armour easily, finally detonating just aft of the engine room, and as a result casing serious flooding aft. While no immediately disabling damage was done, this cost the ship a good three knots, the last thing the captain wanted at this time.
There was no sign of any Luftwaffe presence, and under the circumstances they were obviously not going to escape. Instead, the Gneisenau turned to present all 6 11" rifles to the approaching Warspite (A turret was immovable after the bomb damage, and could not be brought into action), and to allow at least some of her secondary armament to engage the accompanying cruisers. The battleship continued to close to 15,000 yards, apparently confident its thick armour would defeat the German shells. While one hit was obtained on the Warspite, it seemed to cause no critical damage, and she finally turned to expose her rear arcs. This doubled her rate of fire, and though the Gneisenau was armored more like a battleship than the battlecruiser she was designated, it was not sufficient to stop the shells, weighing nearly a ton each, both destroying her superstructure and penetrating her armor belt. The Warspite's fire remained accurate - terrifyingly accurate to the Germans, and in 30 minutes had reduced the ship to a burning, listing wreck, aided by a considerable number of hits by the cruisers 6" guns. The final coup de grace was given by one of the escorting British destroyers, HMS Acasta, which as the Gneisenau fire slowly ground to a halt amid the shattered steel and flames of her deck, fired three 21" torpedoes into her port side. This was the end, and the crew abandoned ship into the cold waters of the North Sea, their ship sliding downwards as the icy water poured into her, until 10 minutes later she slid under the surface of the North Sea.
The decision for the German Admiral, while logical, was still terribly difficult to make. It was already clear that the Gneisenau was badly damaged, reduced to half the speed of her consort. If they stayed together, it was quite probably that both would be sunk. The harsh decision had to be made to leave her, and hope she could evade the British fleet until nightfall. Urgent and demanding messages had been sent, requesting the maximum air cover and also an airstrike on the British fleet, but as yet there were no signs of friendly aircraft. The last time the Scharnhorst saw her sister ship was the sight of her, still burning , disappearing over the horizon to the north as they made their way south at maximum speed. This was reported back to the British fleet. The Sealance was ordered to follow the Scharnhorst south as soon as the Warspite was in visual range of the burning battlecruiser.
The hits had initially slowed the Gneisenau down to 15 knots, but after an hour of desperate work her engineers had got her speed up to 20 knots. It was hoped that this would allow them to get far enough south that the threat of the Luftwaffe would keep them safe until dark. However the attack and the damage had lost her a lot of time, and when they sighted smoke to the north, it was clear that this time had run out. Nemesis, in the form of HMS Warspite and her escorts, had arrived.
The time was 1530. Since it was rational that the Luftwaffe would, if possible, try and stop the Warspite by an air attack, a CAP of 6 Goshawks was accompanying the force. Another 8 were circling the fleet, just in case. It was already becoming clear that the carriers needed more fighters, especially if the Luftwaffe started to take a serious interest in them.
At first the Gneisenau crew hoped that they could outrun the battleship, but although the engineers, by dint of a supreme effort, got her speed up to 22 knots the Warspite was closing (if slowly), opening fire at 26,000 yards. A final hope that they would be under the cover of night, or at least the Luftwaffe, soon was dashed as the British ship, at a range of no less that 25,000yards, scored a direct hit on the Gneisenau. The heavy 15" shell drove down through the ship's deck armour easily, finally detonating just aft of the engine room, and as a result casing serious flooding aft. While no immediately disabling damage was done, this cost the ship a good three knots, the last thing the captain wanted at this time.
There was no sign of any Luftwaffe presence, and under the circumstances they were obviously not going to escape. Instead, the Gneisenau turned to present all 6 11" rifles to the approaching Warspite (A turret was immovable after the bomb damage, and could not be brought into action), and to allow at least some of her secondary armament to engage the accompanying cruisers. The battleship continued to close to 15,000 yards, apparently confident its thick armour would defeat the German shells. While one hit was obtained on the Warspite, it seemed to cause no critical damage, and she finally turned to expose her rear arcs. This doubled her rate of fire, and though the Gneisenau was armored more like a battleship than the battlecruiser she was designated, it was not sufficient to stop the shells, weighing nearly a ton each, both destroying her superstructure and penetrating her armor belt. The Warspite's fire remained accurate - terrifyingly accurate to the Germans, and in 30 minutes had reduced the ship to a burning, listing wreck, aided by a considerable number of hits by the cruisers 6" guns. The final coup de grace was given by one of the escorting British destroyers, HMS Acasta, which as the Gneisenau fire slowly ground to a halt amid the shattered steel and flames of her deck, fired three 21" torpedoes into her port side. This was the end, and the crew abandoned ship into the cold waters of the North Sea, their ship sliding downwards as the icy water poured into her, until 10 minutes later she slid under the surface of the North Sea.
One 11" shell?
Warspite has a 13" belt and and 3.5" - 5" on her decks.
At the range of the hit (around 20,000yd) both Warspites belt and deck are immune.
It would have to be a very lucky hit to do her serious damage.
Scharnhost can _just_ penetrate her belt at Warspite's final engagement range (assuming the AP shells fuzes work, by no means a foregone consludion for 1940 German shells), by which time Warspite (and the cruisers) have pounded her fire control into uselessness.
Oh.
I thought it managed to break something non-obvious, maybe a slowfire, that's going to bite Warspite later
1630, the North Sea, HMS Warspite
While the engagement had been most satisfactory for the British ships, it had not been a completely one-sided battle. The Warspite had been struck by a total of five 11" shells during the engagement, although she had only received one hit before she closed to decisive range, which as early damage to the Gneisenau fire control systems had meant her guns were being fired under local control, was not a bad result. Two of the shells had hit on the Warspite's armoured belt, and this was thick enough to defeat the shells and thus taking only minor damage. Three more had hit her on her superstructure; one had wrecked her aircraft and hanger, causing a fuel fire that took some time to put out, while the second had destroyed two of her casemented 6" guns. The fifth shall had embedded itself between two of her 4" AA turrets, the fuse having failed.
HMS Sheffield had taken two hits from the battlecruisers secondary 6" armament; one had temporarily knocked out X turret, the other had hit her right forward and passed right through, destroying her cable locker and leaving an rather impressive exit hole.
The destroyers were busy picking up survivors when, belatedly, the Luftwaffe arrived. This sadly caused the destroyers to break off rescue operations in order to reform around Warspite and take evasive action. There was only limited warning of the attack as the Sheffield's radar had been temporarily damaged by blast and shock action during the surface engagement. This was to be the Royal Navy's introduction to the Ju87R
The observers on the ship were in fact rather surprised; they recognised the Ju87 - it's distinctive shape could hardly be mistaken for anything else - but they had thought they were well out of range. In fact, the raid hadn't been intended for them at all. The Ju87's were carrying their long range drop tanks, and had intended to attack the main fleet. However due to the increasingly desperate pleas for help by the Gneisenau, they had diverted slightly in the hope of supporting her. But as a result of the distance to the fleet, they were only carrying 250kg GP bombs; this had been considered sufficient to damage or destroy the carriers which had been their intended target, but were going to be far less useful against the Warspite.
The attack consisted of 12 Ju87's escorted by 6 Me110's (while Me109's were now established in southern Norway, the fleet was at the moment out of their range to escort a strike). The force was still being covered by 6 Goshawks, but with the limited warning time they were barely able to close the raid before it arrived. As it was, they were intercepted by the escorting Me110's, allowing the divebombers to attack unmolested by fighters. The Goshawks had been concentrating on the Stukas, and as a result two were shot down in the initial attack by the heavy forward armament of the Me110's. The fighters then turned into the Me110's to attack, then end result of which was three Me110 shot down for the loss of two more Goshawks.
While the fighters were dogfighting, the Stuka's calmly made their approach before settling into the dives. While the fleets HA AA was as enthusiastic as ever, only one Stuka was hit, forcing it to attempt a landing in the sea. The other 11 split up, 7 attacking the battleship while the remaining 4 went for HMS Sheffield. The pilots knew their bombs were not heavy enough to cause serious damage to a battleship, but they hoped to damage her severely enough that a new raid or U-boat attack might finish her off.
The observers on the ships watched with a professional detachment as the Stukas peeled off one by one to attack them, noting the extreme angle of their dives - even steeper it seemed than the FAA's Cormorants managed. Meanwhile the Warspite's captain tried his best to emulate a destroyers agility, not the easiest of tasks with 34,000 tons of WW1 battleship.
Of the seven planes bombing, two achieved hits - a worrying high percentage which the ships hoped was not typical for the Stuka crews. The Warspite's deck armour was too heavy for the 250 kg bombs to penetrate, but they did do considerable damage. One hit directly on top of Y turret; while the heavy armour on the turret roof defeated the bomb, the concussion put the turret out of action. The second bomb hit close to the already destroyed hanger - the Captain was starting to wonder if ships aircraft arrangements were exhibiting some sort of perverse attraction for attacking planes, destroying one 4" AA turret and killing and injuring a number of men. Despite a hail of fire from the ships close AA guns, only one of the attacking planes was shot down.
The four planes attacking the Sheffield found that a cruiser was a more difficult target than a battleship, and indeed Sheffield managed to dodge all 4 bombs, although one fell close enough to cause some underwater leakage and splinter damage that riddled the port side of the ship. All the attacking Stukas escaped damage from the cruisers AA.
While the engagement had been most satisfactory for the British ships, it had not been a completely one-sided battle. The Warspite had been struck by a total of five 11" shells during the engagement, although she had only received one hit before she closed to decisive range, which as early damage to the Gneisenau fire control systems had meant her guns were being fired under local control, was not a bad result. Two of the shells had hit on the Warspite's armoured belt, and this was thick enough to defeat the shells and thus taking only minor damage. Three more had hit her on her superstructure; one had wrecked her aircraft and hanger, causing a fuel fire that took some time to put out, while the second had destroyed two of her casemented 6" guns. The fifth shall had embedded itself between two of her 4" AA turrets, the fuse having failed.
HMS Sheffield had taken two hits from the battlecruisers secondary 6" armament; one had temporarily knocked out X turret, the other had hit her right forward and passed right through, destroying her cable locker and leaving an rather impressive exit hole.
The destroyers were busy picking up survivors when, belatedly, the Luftwaffe arrived. This sadly caused the destroyers to break off rescue operations in order to reform around Warspite and take evasive action. There was only limited warning of the attack as the Sheffield's radar had been temporarily damaged by blast and shock action during the surface engagement. This was to be the Royal Navy's introduction to the Ju87R
The observers on the ship were in fact rather surprised; they recognised the Ju87 - it's distinctive shape could hardly be mistaken for anything else - but they had thought they were well out of range. In fact, the raid hadn't been intended for them at all. The Ju87's were carrying their long range drop tanks, and had intended to attack the main fleet. However due to the increasingly desperate pleas for help by the Gneisenau, they had diverted slightly in the hope of supporting her. But as a result of the distance to the fleet, they were only carrying 250kg GP bombs; this had been considered sufficient to damage or destroy the carriers which had been their intended target, but were going to be far less useful against the Warspite.
The attack consisted of 12 Ju87's escorted by 6 Me110's (while Me109's were now established in southern Norway, the fleet was at the moment out of their range to escort a strike). The force was still being covered by 6 Goshawks, but with the limited warning time they were barely able to close the raid before it arrived. As it was, they were intercepted by the escorting Me110's, allowing the divebombers to attack unmolested by fighters. The Goshawks had been concentrating on the Stukas, and as a result two were shot down in the initial attack by the heavy forward armament of the Me110's. The fighters then turned into the Me110's to attack, then end result of which was three Me110 shot down for the loss of two more Goshawks.
While the fighters were dogfighting, the Stuka's calmly made their approach before settling into the dives. While the fleets HA AA was as enthusiastic as ever, only one Stuka was hit, forcing it to attempt a landing in the sea. The other 11 split up, 7 attacking the battleship while the remaining 4 went for HMS Sheffield. The pilots knew their bombs were not heavy enough to cause serious damage to a battleship, but they hoped to damage her severely enough that a new raid or U-boat attack might finish her off.
The observers on the ships watched with a professional detachment as the Stukas peeled off one by one to attack them, noting the extreme angle of their dives - even steeper it seemed than the FAA's Cormorants managed. Meanwhile the Warspite's captain tried his best to emulate a destroyers agility, not the easiest of tasks with 34,000 tons of WW1 battleship.
Of the seven planes bombing, two achieved hits - a worrying high percentage which the ships hoped was not typical for the Stuka crews. The Warspite's deck armour was too heavy for the 250 kg bombs to penetrate, but they did do considerable damage. One hit directly on top of Y turret; while the heavy armour on the turret roof defeated the bomb, the concussion put the turret out of action. The second bomb hit close to the already destroyed hanger - the Captain was starting to wonder if ships aircraft arrangements were exhibiting some sort of perverse attraction for attacking planes, destroying one 4" AA turret and killing and injuring a number of men. Despite a hail of fire from the ships close AA guns, only one of the attacking planes was shot down.
The four planes attacking the Sheffield found that a cruiser was a more difficult target than a battleship, and indeed Sheffield managed to dodge all 4 bombs, although one fell close enough to cause some underwater leakage and splinter damage that riddled the port side of the ship. All the attacking Stukas escaped damage from the cruisers AA.
I think the recurring history of hangar hits on non carriers will see them removed...
and in turn slow the adoption of helicopters on ships down the road because "WW2 showed that hangar fires are almost certain if a ship equipped such takes fire"
and in turn slow the adoption of helicopters on ships down the road because "WW2 showed that hangar fires are almost certain if a ship equipped such takes fire"
Great writing as ever, seems the RN has a lot to think about in terms of it's AA systems. I guess this means the Scharnhorst gets away, in any case the KM has been destroyed as a surface force by Norway. Looking forward to the next update as ever!
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