WI Canada retains CV capability?

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MacCaulay

Banned
I'm also planning out a Canadian SAS - none of this "Joint Task Force Two" bullshit. (Not that JTF2 ain't effective - just Canadian SAS sounds more menacing.)

Just remember that there already was a Canadian SAS Company, around 1948. The purpose was, as written up by the staff:

a) Provide a tactical parachute company for airborne training. This company is to form the nucleus for expansion for the training of the three infantry battalions as parachute batallions (they were already planning for a proto-Airborne Regiment)

b) Provide a formed body of troops to participate in tactical exercises and dmonstrations for courses at the CJATC and service units throughout the county.

c) Preserve and advance the techniques of SAS [commando] operations developed during World War II.

The idea was that they'd basically keep some sort of airborne capability alive in the Canadian military until the Regiment got running. Then when the Airborne Regiment came the CSAS was disbanded as it's mission was fulfilled.

Would it be SAS or the the 1st Special Service Force?
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=feature/italy99/backgrounders/special

Just to maintain linages better.

FSSF was a joint US/Canadian unit, so there'd be a hard time re-building it as it's original self with just Canadians. Though there are US Special Forces that claim it in their lineage.
 
FSSF was a joint US/Canadian unit, so there'd be a hard time re-building it as it's original self with just Canadians. Though there are US Special Forces that claim it in their lineage.

FSSF was listed in the lineage of the Airborne Regiment. The new Canadian Special Operations Regiment also lists FSSF as part of its lineage and perpetuates its battle honours.
 
(OOC: Note that I am changing OTL history here, because I want the 1990s and 2000s to be more interesting. Any suggestions or comments are of course appreciated. :))

1992 - The Soviet Union officially packs it on Christmas Day in 1991, leaving no enemy in the Cold War and leaving NATO increasingly looking like it has no mission. The draw down of the Soviet Armed Forces, which began in 1985-86, became a flood in 1992 as the Soviet Republics, struggling under their own leadership and in many cases fighting bitterly amongst themselves, looked far less powerful than they had even a decade earlier.

With this came demands that Canada, as with most NATO countries, begin its own reduction in the size of the armed forces. Canada's government and all of its major parties realize that many of the excesses of the Cold War were now unnecessary, but Iraq had taught that there was still a need for the armed forces, and the bitter fighting in the ex-Soviet Republics that became open wars through 1992 showed that peacekeeping, a critical Canadian goal and a primary missions of the Canadian Forces, was gonna last long into the future.

On March 24, 1992, Prime Minister Mulroney announced that the six nuclear sub program that had begun in 1988 would be cut to three, much to the disappointment of the Canadian Submarine Solutions, which had been planning on building all six. The three would be complemented by a small handful of much cheaper to buy (and operate) diesel-electric submarines, once again opening bidding. The Submarine guys quickly got into the bidding for this, but that would remain low-key through the 1990s.

In the slowdown of the 1990s, several of Mulroney's 1991 plan aspects began to be viciously debated. The attack aircraft program would ultimately end up being settled by building additional CF-187 Corsair II attack aircraft, and buying a substantial number of ex-US Navy units for parts and training units. The Fast Sealift and Amphibious Assault Ship programs were merged, and efficiencies began to be looked into.

The battles of the year, despite the problems in Eastern Europe, began in Africa, in two widely spaced and very different countries.

In East Africa, Somalia had become a major problem. The death of dictator Siad Barre in 1991 had thrown the country into chaos, and the battles of 1991 and early 1992 had caused vast chaos in the country, and famine gripped millions. Food began being shipped into the nation in early 1992, but the opposing warlord clans fought bitterly and stole everything possible, with both sides trying to use food as a weapon. Eventually, observers were deployed to try and stop the violence and more easily move the food to those who needed it.

But on April 26, 1992, that situation changed dramatically. A bomb blast on South Africa's famed Blue Train caused the train to derail at over 80 mph, killing President Frederik de Klerk and most of his cabinet. Less than a week later on May 1, 1992, a car bomb aimed at ANC leaders killed ANC leaders Joe Slovo, Chris Hani and Oliver Tambo. Nelson Mandela is wounded in the attack, but not seriously. Rioting in South Africa is put down, brutally, by the South African government in Pretoria, which after the attack on the Blue Train is in no mood to play nice. But after the attack on the ANC leaders, black protesters are not in any mood to play nice, either. Within weeks race war has gripped South Africa, and when combined with the problems in the former Soviet Union strategic minerals prices explode, causing a big slowdown in the world economy.

Realizing that this couldn't stand, UN Resolution 790 former the UNMISA, the United Nations Mission in South Africa, and began to prepare landings. A big hurry-up happens after reports of mutinies within the once rock-hard SADF appear, and the body count soars into the thousands. On May 28, 1992, the UN authorizes the usage of force to end the violence in South Africa, supported by all five Security Council permanent members and dozens of other nations, Canada included. On June 2, Mulroney orders the Eagle battle group to South Africa, expecting trouble from all sides to the landing of troops.

HMCS Eagle is joined by HMS Ark Royal, HMAS Australia and American carriers Nimitz, George Washington, John F. Kennedy and Independence, along with battleship USS Missouri, whose planned retirement had been halted due to the need for gunfire support. The landing at Cape Town on June 28, 1992, met stiff resistance mostly from SADF units, but shortly after the landings the SADF gave in and ordered a cease-fire, with it going into effect on July 1 at 12:01 am. The ANC, however, does not negotiate a cease-fire and continues fighting, forcing allied forces to separate the two.

UNMISA would turn out to be the largest UN operation ever set up, with over 85,000 troops committed to the operation. UNMISA also committed naval and air forces to the operation, a large undertaking even at the best of times. Separated by UNMISA, cooler heads prevail in South Africa. The new Federal Republic of South Africa began to be hammered out in late 1992, and the agreement to create it was signed on May 22, 1993 in Johannesburg.

Eagle is Replaced......with a Supercarrier

UNMISA operations for the CF Maritime Command come to an abrupt end on August 11, 1992, after a malfunctioning rocket causes a giant explosion on Eagle's flight deck, and subsequent explosions seriously damage her engines and rip open a 25-foot-wide hole in the hull, fortunately well above the waterline. The disaster is by a massive margin the greatest peacetime loss ever for the CF, as 121 sailors and airmen are KIA or MIA from the disaster, and 215 injuries are tallied. Dead in the water, American fleet tug Powhatan tows Eagle home, while her vessels join the other UNMISA forces before themselves being called home on August 24.

The disaster aboard Eagle is a major confidence-shaker for the MARCOM, made worse by the Liberals insisting that the seriously-damaged carrier now has no usage in the post-Cold War era and that she should be decommissioned and scrapped. This, however, does not help the Liberals in the 1993 elections, as this decision comes to haunt the opposition. Mulroney, seeing the opportunity, cranks up a public debate by holding off on a decsion to repair Eagle while she is brought home and damage is assessed. Polls, however, see an aircraft carrier as an indispensable tool to assisting the Canadian Forces in their operations around the world. But Eagle's damage is immense - a massive hole in the flight deck, engines seriously damaged, the hull's integrity being questioned by naval architects.

While the debate rages, ideas come in. The United States Navy offers to transfer USS Forrestal for free, a hard offer to pass up, but the Forrestal requires a crew far larger than Eagle did - Forrestal requires 5,500 crew, a massive increase from Eagle's 1,750. But Forrestal's condition is excellent, as the carrier was at the time planned to be the United States Navy's new training carrier, and computerized engineering controls and other upgrades would cut the crew size down by a huge amount.

Also offered is the half-finished Soviet carrier Varyag, offered by Ukraine to Canada for peanuts. But Varyag's condition is very rough. New carriers are moved off as being too pricey, and it looks for a while that Eagle might not have a replacement.

Realizing the problems with not having a carrier and Eagle's age, along with its wartime build and resulting only medium-quality steel and construction (despite her Canadian rebuild), the Canadian Forces begin seriously looking at designing and building their own carrier of roughly 32,000 tons and 45 aircraft, somewhat smaller than Eagle but still a real fixed-wing carrier.

But Mulroney, seeking to both shut up Chretien and show to the increasingly-influential right that he was no wuss, announced on November 26, 1992, that Eagle would be replaced, no matter what, and that the government would go for the American supercarrier if the Maritime Command could figure out a way for Canada to operate it. The decision makes the Maritime Command cheer and stuns all. The Liberals and NDP are against the outrageous cost of operating the beast, but Mulroney's point holds - he will only go for it if the country can afford to operate it.

The US Navy, surprised at the decision but not displeased themselves, asks Congress to allow Forrestal's transfer on January 16, 1993. Despite a new Congress and a new President in Bill Clinton, passage is all but assured, and passes on February 4, 1993. Forrestal is still technically in commission at this point, but the Navy, realizing the fate of the vessel, does make sure to keep it in good shape.

With a budget to maintain, the plans for Forrestal's changes to allow it to operate with fewer crew become a Canadian mission. AECL's proposal to convert it to nuclear power is too costly, but General Motors of Canada and General Electric propose to remove its steam turbines and replace them with gas turbines, turbodiesel cruise engines and turbo-electric drive, and a little known company in Waterloo called Research in Motion proposes to have it all controlled from an engine control room, fully computerized. The University of Toronto proposes a compressed air catapult as opposed to a steal catapult. Many other ideas are thought up to reduce the needed manpower, and the overall result is the 5,540 crew is brought down to 3,310 fully loaded.

The issue becomes a defining one of the 1993 election. The Liberals say that the immense supercarrier will be too costly to operate, citing a cost of $165 million estimated yearly operating cost, along with the ship's age. The Conservatives, now led by Jean Charest and showing a far stronger electoral position than before, fires back that Canada has grown a maritime tradition that is worthy of renown, pointing out Eagle's work in Cyprus, Iraq and South Africa, and the public perception that the aircraft carrier will become a symbol of Canada.

Canada's industries line up behind the plan, pointing out that acquisition and rebuilding of Eagle gave a new life to the Canadian shipbuilding industry, and that the other options are going to a much smaller carrier, none at all or building one themselves, at far greater costs and only marignally smaller operating cost.

The election very narrowly goes to Charest, but its a minority government. The Bloc Quebecois agrees with the Liberals that its too expensive, but the Reform Party wants it done. The NDP, continuing its history of being pro-military despite its socialist policies, goes with the Conservatives.

On March 18, 1994, Canada agrees to take possession of the Forrestal, which is renamed HMCS Warrior (CV-24). The ship goes again to the massive dry-dock in Saint John, New Brunswick, for its overhaul. Over the next three years, the vessel's hull is stripped to bare metal and coated in a polymer solution to prevent rust, followed by a newly-formulated paint which allows for less drag. The ship is extensively reconfigured, with the Port side forward aircraft elevator deleted and a new elevator built at the back of the vessel on the port side. A new superstructure included a funnel venting gases off to the side of the vessel. The flight deck is expanded by 15 percent, and much of the superstructure is built from aluminum to reduce weight. This allows a dedicated helicopter pad above the flight deck behind the tower. The superstructure is very tall, but it also offers excellent views of the vessel and the area around.

Highly-efficient General Electric LM6000 gas turbines and General Motors H-Model four-stroke diesel cruise engines are installed, which also allows room for greater accomodations. HMCS Warrior is a very roomy vessel after its rebuild, and the vessel's accomodation spaces also gain many amenities, and the vessel's power rises from 260,000 shp to a maximum of 325,000 shp, with the gas turbines able to be turned off entirely when cruising, immensely improving fuel efficiency. At full blast, Warrior is capable of an astounding 35.8 knots, and can handle any carrier aircraft on the planet.

Warrior
's rebuild is expensive at $932 million, but that is still one-third the cost of building a new carrier and substantially under budget. Further refinements reduce the crew, air crew included, down to 3,165 officers and men.

Completed in the summer of 1996, Warrior leaves its dry-dock for the first time on August 20, 1996, with its first captain, Captain Peter Hamilton, taking it out for testing. The vessel performs so flawlessly that the crew records absolutely no problems during power and systems testing. The aircraft spends the rest of 1996 and early 1997 testing its aircraft abilities - which are exceptional. In a highly publicized March 1997 incident, a US Navy F-14B got into a mock dogfight with a Canadian Forces' CF-18, and the Navy guy, having lost to the agile fighter, called out that he was "going for reinforcements". Warrior heard that call and ordered its whole air wing airborne to surprise the Americans, leading to a six-aircraft formation running into more than 20 CF-18s, leading the American commander to blurt out "where did all these f--king Canucks come from?"

Testing more successful than had even been hoped, HMCS Warrior (CV-24) was commissioned by Prime Minister Jean Charest in Quebec City on June 25, 1997, marking the arrival of Canada's new carrier, which was promptly deployed to support Canadian forces in the Balkans.

HMCS Warrior
(as commissioned)

Rebuilders: Saint John Maritime Shipbuilding, Saint John, New Brunswick
Engineering Contractors: SNC-Lavalin, Maritimes Marine Engineering

Displacement (light): 59,720 tons
Displacement (full load): 82,260 tons

Length: 990 feet (waterline), 1,088 feet (overall)
Beam: 129 ft 4 in (waterline), 256 feet (extreme width)
Draft: 37 feet (full load)

Propulsion: 5 General Electric LM6000NV gas turbines, 8 General Electric H-Model 265 turbodiesel cruise engines, 13 Westinghouse electric generators, 16 Kinova Electronics 15MW geared electric motors, 4 shafts
Power Output: 325,400 shp
Top Speed: 36.5 knots (67 km/h)
Range: 16,500 miles at 15 knots

Complement: 627 officers, 2,537 men (including air wing)

Aircraft Carried: Up to 85
 
...The Conservatives, now led by Jean Charest

Without Campbell, may I assume, pretty please, that the goddamned LS doesn't get bought?

The election very narrowly goes to Charest, but its a minority government. The Bloc Quebecois agrees with the Liberals that its too expensive, but the Reform Party wants it done. The NDP, continuing its history of being pro-military despite its socialist policies, goes with the Conservatives.

I've got a hard time picturing the NDP as jingo.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
TheMann said:
But on April 26, 1992, that situation changed dramatically. A bomb blast on South Africa's famed Blue Train caused the train to derail at over 80 mph, killing President Frederik de Klerk and most of his cabinet. Less than a week later on May 1, 1992, a car bomb aimed at ANC leaders killed ANC leaders Joe Slovo, Chris Hani and Oliver Tambo. Nelson Mandela is wounded in the attack, but not seriously. Rioting in South Africa is put down, brutally, by the South African government in Pretoria, which after the attack on the Blue Train is in no mood to play nice. But after the attack on the ANC leaders, black protesters are not in any mood to play nice, either. Within weeks race war has gripped South Africa, and when combined with the problems in the former Soviet Union strategic minerals prices explode, causing a big slowdown in the world economy.

Realizing that this couldn't stand, UN Resolution 790 former the UNMISA, the United Nations Mission in South Africa, and began to prepare landings. A big hurry-up happens after reports of mutinies within the once rock-hard SADF appear, and the body count soars into the thousands. On May 28, 1992, the UN authorizes the usage of force to end the violence in South Africa, supported by all five Security Council permanent members and dozens of other nations, Canada included. On June 2, Mulroney orders the Eagle battle group to South Africa, expecting trouble from all sides to the landing of troops.

HMCS Eagle is joined by HMS Ark Royal, HMAS Australia and American carriers Nimitz, George Washington, John F. Kennedy and Independence, along with battleship USS Missouri, whose planned retirement had been halted due to the need for gunfire support. The landing at Cape Town on June 28, 1992, met stiff resistance mostly from SADF units, but shortly after the landings the SADF gave in and ordered a cease-fire, with it going into effect on July 1 at 12:01 am. The ANC, however, does not negotiate a cease-fire and continues fighting, forcing allied forces to separate the two.

UNMISA would turn out to be the largest UN operation ever set up, with over 85,000 troops committed to the operation. UNMISA also committed naval and air forces to the operation, a large undertaking even at the best of times. Separated by UNMISA, cooler heads prevail in South Africa. The new Federal Republic of South Africa began to be hammered out in late 1992, and the agreement to create it was signed on May 22, 1993 in Johannesburg.

Mann, you've done it! An alternate timeline where the Canadians were in Vortex! :D:D:D
 
1993 - With South Africa starting to slow down, Africa flared yet again, and it was Somalia, as most expected. This time too, the various sides said one thing and did another, just as both the SADF and ANC had done in South Africa. The most infamous of the leaders was Mohammed Farah Aidid, who had been the most guilty person of taking food from people for political purposes.

A deal was struck between fifteen Somali clans in Addis Adaba in March 1993, but from the get-go several parties, including the clan led by Aidid, showed absolutely no intention of abiding by the deal. The UN in response ordered the deployment of 40,000 troops to Somalia to attempt to restore order and rebuild the nation. UNOSOM II's attempts to disarm various factions went badly, and it ultimately culminated in the first battle of Mogadishu on June 5, where 30 UN soldiers, including two Canadians, were killed in massive street fighting. A week later, the United States attacked a safe house where they believed many of Aidid's clan were, but instead many of the people there were Somali elders. More than 80 of them were killed. A Canadian force called to the scene saw three of its Bison APCs struck by rocket-propelled grenades, killing five soldiers and wounding eleven others.

On October 3, the biggest battle of Mogadishu began when two US helicopters were hit by Somali RPGs and downed as a result as they were deploying US Army Rangers on a mission to capture Aidid's foreign minister, among others. The battle, which lasted sixteen hours, went south in a hurry. The situation was finally fixed in the morning when a convoy, led by five Canadian Forces' Leopard tanks and including a long line of American, Canadian, Malaysian and Pakistani armor, rolled in to rescue the soldiers trapped in the battle. In the night, two Delta Force snipers were inserted by helicopter to protect one of the downed choppers. Hearing this, three Canadians Airborne Regiment members followed them in, against the advice of Commander Rick Hillier, the head Canadian officer in Somalia. The three men, along with the two American snipers, were killed when Somali militia overran the site. The three men - Lieutenant Ryan Petersen, Sargeant Andrew Scott and Master Corporal James Harrison - would be the first three men to be awarded Canada's Victoria Cross, albeit posthumously.

The mission in Somalia, which had become a failure and had sent far too many men home dead, was stopped in the US on October 6th and in Canada the next day. Troops began to be removed from the area, and by February 1994 the last Canadian Forces personnel had come home. They would not be gone long, however.

On the home front, Mulroney's decision to replace Eagle leads to her simply having the damaged fixed, but even that takes months. Eagle is out of action until January 1994, but the final overhaul also ensures that the vessel will be able to survive far into the future - important, as the hope is that Eagle once replaced will become a museum ship. The cost of the rebuild of the carrier is also so high that the plans for the submarines are put on hold - the Oberons are still functioning, and its all that is needed for now for diesel subs, The first Canadian nuclear sub, delayed substantially by difficulties, is finally delivered in January 1993, after spending 18 months testing its systems and training crewmen. HMCS Superior, the first of the three, is commissioned a month later, putting Canada into the SSN world for the first time. It's sister ship, HMCS Lake Huron, is delivered in late 1993 and commissioned in January 1994. The final SSN is delayed by a yard fire, but HMCS Athabaska is commissioned in July 1995.

On the purchases front, demands to level off the budget threaten to slow down the rate of purchases to build the 21st Century Canadian Forces. Jean Chretien in the 1993 election proposes to can Mulroney's plan for financial reasons. This idea backfires in his face, causing a substantial drop in his popularity, causing him to quickly reverse his position - and allowing his rival, Prime Minister Jean Charest (1) to throw it in his face. Charest makes what many figured was an impossible task by managing to keep the government after the massive mistakes of Brian Mulroney's government on domestic policy, though he is only able to get a minority. That minority is only unstable for months, before circumstances at home force unity by the parties.

The Air Command received a proposal in May 1993 by Bombardier and Airbus of France for the aerial refueling and transport aircraft idea. Airbus knew at that point that Europe was working on a transport aircraft project among several European nations (2), and figured that Canada, which possessed at that point one of the ten largest defense budgets on the planet, would likely be a big partner. The proposal would see Canada buy six of Airbus' giant A340 airliners, with four of them being converted for air to air refuelers with one boom and two probe and drogue refueling systems, and would be granted major industrial contracts for the European air transport. One idea here was for the European aircraft to use Pratt and Whitney Canada engines, another was to have Bombardier assemble fuselage components and have Canadian manufacturers make some of the avionics.

This broke in the media in July 1993, and caused a stunned uproar from Boeing, which quickly responded by offering Canada tankers based on the Boeing 737 and 767, and also offering to develop a variant on the then brand-new 777. Boeing, remembering that the Forces' always wanted as much work as possible done in Canada, offered to have the aircraft converted in Canada, at a brand-new facility. Lockheed quickly jumps to support its usual rival, offering Canada the new-build version of the trusty C-130 Hercules, which has served the Canadian Forces quite ably since 1960. The two bids would be big rivals as the battles were fought in the military, the government and the media through 1993 and 1994.

On the other acquisitions front, MARCOM were focused on the Halifax class frigates, which were important as the aging steam-powered warships were being retired over time, and the new carrier program. Several of the Halifax-class vessels, notably the first HMCS Athabaskan and HMCS Terry Fox would end their lives as museum ships. By the end of 1993, five of the Halifax-class frigates - Halifax, Vancouver, Ville de Quebec, Toronto and Regina - were in commission, while Calgary and Montreal were either in testing or outfitting. The remaining seven - Fredricton, Winnipeg, Charlottetown, St. Johns, Ottawa, Edmonton and Kelowna - all had names and plans, and all had their assigned shipyards.

The Land Command was taking delivery of some 66 of the Canadian-built Oerliknon ADATS, and it also had a stake, as did the Navy, in the new helicopter programs. On that front, the new helicopter programs were focused on three helicopters - one for anti-submarine duties for the MARCOM, one for search and rescue for both the MARCOM and Air Command, one for utility transport for the Air Command and Army.

(1) Jean Charest was Kim Campbell's chief rivals in the 1993 Conservative leadership race, and Mulroney repreatedly blamed Joe Clark (Mulroney's predecessor) for Charest's loss. I personall think that Charest is more likely to keep the Red Tories alive, so I had him beat Campbell.

(2) This program will create the Airbus A400M, which here is around much sooner than in OTL.
 
The 1994 Canadian Forces

Maritime Command Vessels

Eagle-class Aircraft Carrier (1)
HMCS Eagle (CV-23)

Ontario-class (Kidd class) Missile Destroyer (4)
HMCS Ontario (DDG 284)
HMCS Quebec (DDG 285)
HMCS British Columbia (DDG 286)
HMCS Alberta (DDG 287)

Manitoba-class (Type 42) Missile Destroyer (2)
HMCS Manitoba (DDG 288)
HMCS Newfoundland (DDG 289)

Iroquois-class Helicopter Destroyer (4)
HMCS Iroquois (DDH 280)
HMCS Huron (DDH 281)
HMCS Athabaskan (DDH 282)
HMCS Algonquin (DDH 283)

Halifax-class Patrol Frigate (5)
HMCS Halifax (FFH 330)
HMCS Vancouver (FFH 331)
HMCS Ville de Quebec (FFH 332)
HMCS Toronto (FFH 333)
HMCS Regina (FFH 334)

Annapolis-class destroyer escort (2)
HMCS Annapolis (DDH 265)
HMCS Nipigon (DDH 266)

Superior-class nuclear attack submarines (2)
HMCS Superior (SSN 876)
HMCS Lake Huron (SSN 877)

Oberon-class diesel-electric submarines (3)
HMCS Ojibwa (SSK 871)
HMCS Okanagan (SSK 872)
HMCS Onondaga (SSK 873)

Protecteur-class auxillary vessel (2)
HMCS Protecteur (AOR 509)
HMCS Preserver (AOR 510)

Provider-class auxillar vessel (1)
HMCS Provider (AOR 508)

Maritime Command Air Wing

32 CF-188 Hornet (multi-role fighter)
53 CF-187 Corsair II (attack aircraft)
80 CP-121 Tracker (carrier-borne ASW aircraft)
7 CE-2C Hawkeye (carrier-borne AEW aircraft)
25 CP-140 Aurora (maritime patrol aircraft)
36 CH-124 Sea King (ASW/utility helicopter)

Canadian Forces Air Command

Active Aircraft


77 CF-184 Tomcat (air defense aircraft)
96 CF-188 Hornet (multi-role fighter)
44 CF-116 Freedom Fighter (light fighter)

6 CE-150AEW Polaris (airborne early warning aircraft)

12 CC-137C Husky (transport/airborne tanker)
32 CC-130 Hercules (transport/airborne tanker)
5 CC-144 Challenger 600 (transport/VIP aircraft)
6 CC-138 Twin Otter (transport aircraft)
2 CC-132 Dash-7 (STOL transport aircraft)
10 CC-109 Cosmopolitan (transport aircraft)
18 CC-129 Dakota (transport aircraft)
6 CC-115 Buffalo (search and rescue)

9 CH-147C Chinook (heavy lift/transport helicopter)
18 CH-113 Sea Knight (Transport helicopter, 6 converted to SAR helicopters)
65 CH-136 Kiowa (light attack/observation helicopter)
44 CH-135 Twin Huey (transport helicopter)

Land Command

75 Leopard C1 (main battle tank)
275 Grizzly AVGP (armored vehicle)
944 M113 (armored personnel carrier)
170 M113 Lynx (command and control vehicle)
76 M109A4+ (self-propelled artillery)
66 ADATS-1 (air defense aircraft)
1,210 Volkswagen Iltis (utility transport)
2,740 MLVW (M35) transport trucks)
78 Bv206 (tracked utility vehicles)
27 Husky AVGP (armored recovery vehicle)
9 AVLB Beaver (bridge-laying vehicle)
16 ARV Taurus (armored recovery vehicle)
 
Well, IIRC a Tomcat would be a tight fit on an Eagle-class. IOTL even the Rhinos had to be re-engined with Speys instead of their original J79s due to sluggish spool-up, which can make the difference between a successful bolter and pulling the yellow handle.
 
Wow! I take my hat, (or I would if I were wearing one) off to you. Fantastic work!.

Although i do wonder, would a carrier the size of the Forrestal be the best thing for the CF? Even with all the crew cutbacks and modernisations, she is still a big brute of a ship. Surely an indigenous carrier (or maybe even 2) of 30-40,000 tonnes would be more suitable and be more justified. After all, if Canada has modern carriers capable of holding upto perhaps 45 aircraft it would give her a blue water capacity perhaps even to or greater than that of Britain?

Russell
 
Wow! I take my hat, (or I would if I were wearing one) off to you. Fantastic work!.

Although i do wonder, would a carrier the size of the Forrestal be the best thing for the CF? Even with all the crew cutbacks and modernisations, she is still a big brute of a ship. Surely an indigenous carrier (or maybe even 2) of 30-40,000 tonnes would be more suitable and be more justified. After all, if Canada has modern carriers capable of holding upto perhaps 45 aircraft it would give her a blue water capacity perhaps even to or greater than that of Britain?

Russell
Think about it, Russell, they're getting the Forrestal for a song and a dance (dirt-cheap), and her size makes it easier for the Canadians to operate at sea.
 
Think about it, Russell, they're getting the Forrestal for a song and a dance (dirt-cheap), and her size makes it easier for the Canadians to operate at sea.

True, but it doesn't change the fact that the ship is still somewhat unjustifiable and politically prohibative, especially when in countries like Britain and France which both arguably have stronger maratime traditions than Canada (even in this TL, although one could argue that Canada has inherited a strong tradition through the Royal Navy) it has been difficult to justify any carrier in the 50,000-60,0000 tonne range. Especially now in the post cold war climate, while the presence of a carrier is very much justifiable for the Canadians, one of this size is perhaps not. I have no objections to the Canuks operating carriers (indeed I'm working on a TL right now where they recieve from Britain two Centaur Class carriers in the late 1940's) but when compared to the scope of the rest of their military, one or two smaller carriers might make the CN more flexible. Perhaps they could hold on for a few years or even approach the French about buying the Clemencau class from them?
 
Well, IIRC a Tomcat would be a tight fit on an Eagle-class. IOTL even the Rhinos had to be re-engined with Speys instead of their original J79s due to sluggish spool-up, which can make the difference between a successful bolter and pulling the yellow handle.

The Tomcat never operated from HMCS Eagle, for that very reason. It was tested and it worked, but the plane was too big for it to be used safely and regularly. The Hornets are used by Eagle.

Russell, I do see your point, entirely. I agree that Canada would probably be much better served with a smaller 35-40,000 ton carrier. The problem is that building such a carrier would cost at least $4-5 Billion, which is too much for the country's budgets. The Forrestal here got a almost $1 Billion refit, so you've saved $3 Billion on a new one, and with if its extra cost to operate is $75 million over the smaller carrier, you'd need to operate the smaller carrier for 40 years to make up the difference. That's the argument made for buying it. Then you have the fact that the Warrior is a bigger carrier, and as such has more operational capability. Warrior, I should point out, is about the same size as the new Queen Elizabeth class being bought by the UK. Canada's budget here is about 80% of that of the UK, and Canada has not got any nuclear weapons (and has no intewntion of getting them) and a smaller Navy overall.
 
True, but it doesn't change the fact that the ship is still somewhat unjustifiable and politically prohibative, especially when in countries like Britain and France which both arguably have stronger maratime traditions than Canada (even in this TL, although one could argue that Canada has inherited a strong tradition through the Royal Navy) it has been difficult to justify any carrier in the 50,000-60,0000 tonne range. Especially now in the post cold war climate, while the presence of a carrier is very much justifiable for the Canadians, one of this size is perhaps not. I have no objections to the Canuks operating carriers (indeed I'm working on a TL right now where they recieve from Britain two Centaur Class carriers in the late 1940's) but when compared to the scope of the rest of their military, one or two smaller carriers might make the CN more flexible. Perhaps they could hold on for a few years or even approach the French about buying the Clemencau class from them?

You might be surprised to learn that I agree with you, Russell. But what used mid-sized carriers are available for usage in 1992-93? The American supercarriers and the Ukrainian Varyag, but that's about it. The Clemenceau is smaller, but the French didn't retire those for a few years yet, and the fact that they did retire them when they did is somewhat surprising, considering that Charles de Gaulle, with its endless technical issues, wasn't fully ready for service when Foch was sold to the Brazilians in 2000. In addition, with the Canadian Forces being the size it is, it couldn't easily form two battle groups and still have adequate defense at home.
 
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