Green and Pleasant Land

[The Dean]

From the Daily Telegraph today:-

Overcrowded rail network to get £2.4bn


By David Millward, Transport Correspondent
Last Updated: 9:15am BST 03/04/2007


A £2.4 billion spending programme which will see platforms added and lengthened and signalling improved has been announced by Network Rail.

The £2.4bn is aimed at cutting overcrowding

The package, believed to be the biggest in decades, will be implemented over the next two years.
It is designed to ease the chronic overcrowding on the system and comes within weeks of the Government announcing that it will provide 1,000 extra carriages.
With demand for rail travel soaring, the investment is designed to take some of the pressure off the network.
Last week the Office of Rail Regulation revealed that passenger numbers have been increasing faster than train capacity over the past year, meaning that passengers faced the prospect of even worse overcrowding.
Today's package is a series of 'quick fixes' designed to ease some of the worst problems although far more radical solutions will be needed on some lines - such as that into London's Waterloo, which is already running almost at capacity.
A new station will be built at East Midlands Parkway and extra platforms are being provided at Manchester Airport, Bristol Parkway, Newport and Wakefield Westgate.
Also included in a list of 900 schemes is a new line from Airdrie to Bathgate in Scotland and several track doubling projects - designed to help avoid delays on some of the busiest parts of the network.
Money will also be spent on station car parks amid complaints from passenger groups that the shortage of spaces is putting people off commuting by rail.
"Three million people use the railways each day, more than at any time in the past 60 years," said John Armitt, Network Rail's chief executive.
"We're not standing still waiting for the big infrastructure projects to be delivered. We are doing something about it now by moving forward with hundreds of small sc

It seem as though the closures of the 1960s were premature.

 

[The Dean]

Well, I have completed my weeks grueling research for my TL G&PL. There was absolutely no time for quaffing of alcoholic beverages, lounging in the unseasonal sunny weather or any form of recreational activities.

As the form of transport I had least experience with I took a weeks trip on the River Wey navigation in Surrey. This is the oldest navigation cut in Britain opened in 1653 fully 100 years before the main canal system started up with the industrial revolution. The Godalming section of the navigation opening up at the later date with the rest of the system.

This was also the last navigation to operate commercially only closing in 1964. Now it is heavily used by the leisure industry, as is the rest of the system. Unlike the railways nearly all of the old canal routes are either open or in the process of being restored. Indeed there is now some commercial use of the navigation and in a bid to reduce congestion on other transport systems other navigations in the country are being looked at as alternative transport routes.

Traditional wooden barge which stayed in use up to 1963 and could carry 50 tons of goods.

Cargo hold

Crew quarters

Modern cargo barge can carry 100 tons

Cargo hold (no crew quarters provided)

Working barge

Roadworks!

Warehouse in Guildford using the river.

Coxe's mill, now converted into flats, was powered by the river and the river provided it's transport.

Cargo handeling in Guildford town center now disused.

Wharf for Chilworth gunpowder mill where the Chilworth mounds used in all explosive factories even today were developed.

Site of Chilworth gunpowder mills

The "crew" at Coxe's mill.

Entering a lock going upstream.

How it used to be done.

Turning post for the towrope to get the barge around bends in the river.

Alternative transport.

and finally, of course, you can't go on the river without........

Rosie and Jim!

 

[Hendryk]

Well, I have completed my weeks grueling research for my TL G&PL. There was absolutely no time for quaffing of alcoholic beverages, lounging in the unseasonal sunny weather or any form of recreational activities.

Nice to see people taking their research seriously

 

[DoctorMO]

Very nice end picture; a very old show that is.

 

[alt_historian]

Hello?

You planning on doing any more with this? Or do you consider it completed now? Not that I have any particular suggestions...

 

[The Dean]

You planning on doing any more with this? Or do you consider it completed now? Not that I have any particular suggestions...

Yes I am working on a couple of pieces on the canal transport and the political developments that could have made all this happen. So far I have just glossed over the politics of this but I do have realistic propositions for the events I have described.

 

[The Dean]

Just in time to give me a kick start to get my arse into gear and carry on with G&PL Sky News broadcast this morning that the supermarket chain Sainsburys have been trialling water transport for their west London branches using the Grand Union canal.

Sainsbury's Ladbrook Grove

They have several branches with their own moorings, and indeed were originally built to utilise that means of transport. The trials have discovered that barges can supply these branches more reliably and economically than road transport.

They are now going to use this as their main means of serving these branches and reintroduce it on any other branches built on waterways.

 

[Aozhouhuaren]

An excellent Timeline, a very interesting read. It's good that you are thinking of continuing it.

 

[alt_historian]

Just in time to give me a kick start to get my arse into gear and carry on with G&PL Sky News broadcast this morning that the supermarket chain Sainsburys have been trialling water transport for their west London branches using the Grand Union canal.

Sainsbury's Ladbrook Grove

...

They have several branches with their own moorings, and indeed were originally built to utilise that means of transport. The trials have discovered that barges can supply these branches more reliably and economically than road transport.

They are now going to use this as their main means of serving these branches and reintroduce it on any other branches built on waterways.

We're getting there, aren't we...

 

[alt_historian]

Bump

Yes I am working on a couple of pieces on the canal transport and the political developments that could have made all this happen. So far I have just glossed over the politics of this but I do have realistic propositions for the events I have described.

Bump, bump, bump.

Continue with the Ultimate Trainlovers' TL!

 

[PMN1]

Whoops...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7046727.stm
​

 

[alt_historian]

And bumped once more, due to PMN1's post.
*whistles nonchalantly, in a not-at-all suspicious way*

 

[TheMann]

Lorry carrying trains similar to the Channel Tunnel ones would seem to be a logical extension of the car carrying one, what impact would they have on the canals?
​

Good question.

I will add to that - in North America, trains carrying trucks have been common since the early 1960s. I gotta imagine this would be the case here too. And with that in mind, are canals/rivers with boats carrying trucks in the cards here?

 

[Max Sinister]

in North America, trains carrying trucks have been common since the early 1960s. I gotta imagine this would be the case here too.

You mean in OTL Britain they aren't? Why?

 

[The Dean]

You mean in OTL Britain they aren't? Why?

The problem in the UK is the loading gauge on most routes is not large enough to allow the transit of large trucks on railway wagons.

You can see from this diagram from here a lot of lineside clearing and bridge and tunnel work would have to be done to allow those size trains to run in the UK.

If you recall I was proposing that, among other things, would have been done rather than building the motorway network.

But really you don't need to put the truck on the train or barge, the standard shipping container can be carried on either and transferred to a road vehicle for the final stage of the journey.

 

[PMN1]

And bumped once more, due to PMN1's post.
*whistles nonchalantly, in a not-at-all suspicious way*

The pictures dont give a good idea of the amount of mud and rock that has come down accross the road and through people's gardens. The road is going to be closed for at least 3-4 days while they clear it, lucky it occcured at 7.30, about half an hour later and it would have been quite full with cars taking 'the rat run'.

 

[The Dean]

The pictures dont give a good idea of the amount of mud and rock that has come down accross the road and through people's gardens. The road is going to be closed for at least 3-4 days while they clear it, lucky it occcured at 7.30, about half an hour later and it would have been quite full with cars taking 'the rat run'.

I wonder how much of the rest of the canal network is at risk, and how long before some government agency starts taking an interest and starts making knee jerk proposals to render the system "safe" which is their euphemism for demolished.

 

[alt_historian]

I wonder how much of the rest of the canal network is at risk, and how long before some government agency starts taking an interest and starts making knee jerk proposals to render the system "safe" which is their euphemism for demolished.

Well, if anyone in the government was thinking along the lines of The Dean in this thread - I know, someone in the government thinking is unlikely - then this would be the perfect opportunity to draw attention to canals, in better way.
Look, this hypothetical far-sighted politician could say, all these canals are just sitting idle. If we repaired them we could use them for freight transport etc.

How plausible is this, Dean?

 

[The Dean]

Well, if anyone in the government was thinking along the lines of The Dean in this thread - I know, someone in the government thinking is unlikely - then this would be the perfect opportunity to draw attention to canals, in better way.
Look, this hypothetical far-sighted politician could say, all these canals are just sitting idle. If we repaired them we could use them for freight transport etc.

How plausible is this, Dean?

The canals are not idle they are in use constantly by the leisure industry, which with canal enthusiasts have restored and now maintain most of the system.

The government would only have to encourage their use. Private industry is already there see here.

 

[PMN1]

The problem in the UK is the loading gauge on most routes is not large enough to allow the transit of large trucks on railway wagons.

You can see from this diagram from here a lot of lineside clearing and bridge and tunnel work would have to be done to allow those size trains to run in the UK.

If you recall I was proposing that, among other things, would have been done rather than building the motorway network.

But really you don't need to put the truck on the train or barge, the standard shipping container can be carried on either and transferred to a road vehicle for the final stage of the journey.

Wnat do GC, GB+ etc stand for?