there's so much wrong with that that i don't even know where to begin
The Sloppiest Alternate Histories Out There...
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there's so much wrong with that that i don't even know where to begin
Nick P
Donor
All this and nobody has mentioned Newt Gingrich's classic 1945? 
A fascinatingly bad piece of WW2 writing where the Nazi's launch a 100-bomber raid across the Atlantic to destroy the nuclear weapon plant at Oak Ridge and at Los Alamos, aided by Otto Skorzeny and his ubertroops.
The only one who can stop them? Sgt Alvin York.
All this while the German Navy launches Operation Seelowe across the North Sea for the German Army to invade Scotland. And Greenland. And Iceland.....
A fascinatingly bad piece of WW2 writing where the Nazi's launch a 100-bomber raid across the Atlantic to destroy the nuclear weapon plant at Oak Ridge and at Los Alamos, aided by Otto Skorzeny and his ubertroops.
The only one who can stop them? Sgt Alvin York.
All this while the German Navy launches Operation Seelowe across the North Sea for the German Army to invade Scotland. And Greenland. And Iceland.....
All this and nobody has mentioned Newt Gingrich's classic 1945?
A fascinatingly bad piece of WW2 writing where the Nazi's launch a 100-bomber raid across the Atlantic to destroy the nuclear weapon plant at Oak Ridge and at Los Alamos, aided by Otto Skorzeny and his ubertroops.
The only one who can stop them? Sgt Alvin York.
All this while the German Navy launches Operation Seelowe across the North Sea for the German Army to invade Scotland. And Greenland. And Iceland.....
And the Red Army just decides to sit back and let the whole thing unfold?
The US didn't get involved in Europe, so Germany forced a truce with the USSR.
Somehow...
A fascinatingly bad piece of WW2 writing where the Nazi's launch a 100-bomber raid across the Atlantic to destroy the nuclear weapon plant at Oak Ridge and at Los Alamos, aided by Otto Skorzeny and his ubertroops.
The only one who can stop them? Sgt Alvin York.
I'm going to be honest, this part would have been awesome if done well. Unfortunately...it wasn't.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Could've even been good fodder for a silly movie.
I don't think Back in the USSA deserves to appear in here as its simply tongue-in-cheek with no effort to say "it could have happened here!". I mean the British troops in Vietnam fly into battle Kilgore-style with this blaring out of the speakers, which is both pretty clever and utterly ridiculous.
I once caught a bit of the TV Mini-Series Amerika and was not particularly impressed. It was a pro-nuclear response to The Day After, basically saying without a strong deterrant the Soviets could just walk in. While not alternate history when it was first broadcast its an interesting artifact and clearly influenced by Man in the High Castle - a great book with a ridiculous premise designed simply to set the stage for Philip K. Dick's story. In Amerika that's the whole story.
It has nice touches like Lincoln being reappropriated for Communist propaganda but is full of bizarre stuff like the US Congress -10 years into the occupation- refusing to accept Soviet demands and being gunned down in the Capitol building. I find it hard to believe Congress would not have been packed with puppets long before then, never mind the Soviet response. Its full of heavy handed dialogue about 80s America being weak and unwilling to fight and that's its biggest failing, its boring and preachy. Events -like the Congress massacre- which make no logical sense are chucked in to be symbolic and shocking.
I once caught a bit of the TV Mini-Series Amerika and was not particularly impressed. It was a pro-nuclear response to The Day After, basically saying without a strong deterrant the Soviets could just walk in. While not alternate history when it was first broadcast its an interesting artifact and clearly influenced by Man in the High Castle - a great book with a ridiculous premise designed simply to set the stage for Philip K. Dick's story. In Amerika that's the whole story.
It has nice touches like Lincoln being reappropriated for Communist propaganda but is full of bizarre stuff like the US Congress -10 years into the occupation- refusing to accept Soviet demands and being gunned down in the Capitol building. I find it hard to believe Congress would not have been packed with puppets long before then, never mind the Soviet response. Its full of heavy handed dialogue about 80s America being weak and unwilling to fight and that's its biggest failing, its boring and preachy. Events -like the Congress massacre- which make no logical sense are chucked in to be symbolic and shocking.
Isn't most published AH fiction, which is seriously focused around the alternate features, well, isn't most all of that, from a plausibility stance, well, a bit shit?
I think this is because it's marketed towards military buffs first and foremost, of course there's far more of people interested in tanks/Nazis/pew pew than there are people with a genuine interest in historical fiction. I think, we, the people on here, are a minority even within our own interest.
I think this is because it's marketed towards military buffs first and foremost, of course there's far more of people interested in tanks/Nazis/pew pew than there are people with a genuine interest in historical fiction. I think, we, the people on here, are a minority even within our own interest.
Nick Griffalco
Banned
When Dick wrote Man in the High Castle wasn't a lot of the World War II info we take for granted still classified, and didn't that shape how the novel turned out?
RamscoopRaider
Donor
More Phillip K. Dick was inspired partially by a history book that while popular, even at the time was considered innaccurate by historians
That said there still were quite a few classified things in 1962, and more importantly a lot of the scholarship that proves the nazis could not have done it was not written yet
oboro
Banned
An ASB where George W. Bush is President in 1941:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCiSRKkk-EU
Discussed here:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=342091&highlight=Fahrenheit+1941
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCiSRKkk-EU
Discussed here:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=342091&highlight=Fahrenheit+1941
Last edited:
All this and nobody has mentioned Newt Gingrich's classic 1945?
A fascinatingly bad piece of WW2 writing where the Nazi's launch a 100-bomber raid across the Atlantic to destroy the nuclear weapon plant at Oak Ridge and at Los Alamos, aided by Otto Skorzeny and his ubertroops.
The only one who can stop them? Sgt Alvin York.
All this while the German Navy launches Operation Seelowe across the North Sea for the German Army to invade Scotland. And Greenland. And Iceland.....
I though I remember reading somewhere that Newt later admitted some of the stuff in that book was pretty far-fetched, but I can't seem to find it...
All this and nobody has mentioned Newt Gingrich's classic 1945?
A fascinatingly bad piece of WW2 writing where the Nazi's launch a 100-bomber raid across the Atlantic to destroy the nuclear weapon plant at Oak Ridge and at Los Alamos, aided by Otto Skorzeny and his ubertroops.
The only one who can stop them? Sgt Alvin York.
All this while the German Navy launches Operation Seelowe across the North Sea for the German Army to invade Scotland. And Greenland. And Iceland.....
agree with all that. And yet... the last chapter of the book, where the higher ups in DC are talking about upgrading the USAF practically overnight and responding to German moves, made me want to read the sequel... which will never happen...
Nick P
Donor
I too would love to read the sequel for this. The actual action was tightly plotted and kept the story moving throughout, no sense of dead air like some of Harrison or Turtledove.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
All this and nobody has mentioned Newt Gingrich's classic 1945?
A fascinatingly bad piece of WW2 writing where the Nazi's launch a 100-bomber raid across the Atlantic to destroy the nuclear weapon plant at Oak Ridge and at Los Alamos, aided by Otto Skorzeny and his ubertroops.
The only one who can stop them? Sgt Alvin York.
All this while the German Navy launches Operation Seelowe across the North Sea for the German Army to invade Scotland. And Greenland. And Iceland.....
He got better at it that's for sure. Read his Gettysburg series and his series where Yamamoto leads the Pearl Harbor strike force himself.
"K" by Daniel Easterman.
Based on the idea that Charles Lindbergh was elected President in 1932 backed by the KK, problem is that Lindbergh could not have been elected President in 1932 because he was only 30 years old, you have to be 35 to run for President.
Actually the rest of K works well, but is flawed by this major error!!
Based on the idea that Charles Lindbergh was elected President in 1932 backed by the KK, problem is that Lindbergh could not have been elected President in 1932 because he was only 30 years old, you have to be 35 to run for President.
Actually the rest of K works well, but is flawed by this major error!!
Also about "K" it has another error in which the Speaker of The House takes over from the killed President (there is no VP), this didn't happen until 1947. Until then the Secretary of State was next in line. So in 1940, it would have been the Speaker who took over, although it could be said that the KK Government may have changed the line of succession after they took office, that isn't mentioned in the book, so I assume it was another error and lack of research.
I just want to mention a novel by Harry Turtledove. I read it years ago and I can't remember the title, but the plot stuck for its ridiculousness.
Basically, Communism wins the Cold War. The main characters, living in Commie Milan, oppose communist tyranny by . . . playing capitalist-themed board games brought there by timeline-hopping people.
I gather that there are certain subjects Turtledove is biased about. I haven't read ‘Joe Steel’, but that sounds ridiculous; mostly, because communism would have been different in America. It's my belief that Stalin got away with a tyranny partly because Russia had never been ruled democratically.
If a democratic country, especially, had a homegrown revolution, there would have been at least some democratic elements in the government.
Also, Americans would never accept a Russian immigrant as their leader (yes, Joe Steel is just Josef Stalin if he immigrated to America).
Finally, and I'll try to not to go a tangent, why does every timeline where the Americans lost the Revolutionary War have the States still being a British colony in the present. That would take a crap-ton of ASBs.
If America did not declare independence in the 1770s, then they would have either:
a) Been made a dominion, like Canada, in the mid-19th Century.
b) Been let go by the British Empire due to lack of funds, after WW2.
Personally, I'd like to see a timeline where America is basically Canada 2.0; just, America OTL, but with healthcare and no 4th of July.
Basically, Communism wins the Cold War. The main characters, living in Commie Milan, oppose communist tyranny by . . . playing capitalist-themed board games brought there by timeline-hopping people.
I gather that there are certain subjects Turtledove is biased about. I haven't read ‘Joe Steel’, but that sounds ridiculous; mostly, because communism would have been different in America. It's my belief that Stalin got away with a tyranny partly because Russia had never been ruled democratically.
If a democratic country, especially, had a homegrown revolution, there would have been at least some democratic elements in the government.
Also, Americans would never accept a Russian immigrant as their leader (yes, Joe Steel is just Josef Stalin if he immigrated to America).
Finally, and I'll try to not to go a tangent, why does every timeline where the Americans lost the Revolutionary War have the States still being a British colony in the present. That would take a crap-ton of ASBs.
If America did not declare independence in the 1770s, then they would have either:
a) Been made a dominion, like Canada, in the mid-19th Century.
b) Been let go by the British Empire due to lack of funds, after WW2.
Personally, I'd like to see a timeline where America is basically Canada 2.0; just, America OTL, but with healthcare and no 4th of July.