Castlereaghs Deputy in 1814?

[Tony Jones]

In 1814, if Viscount Castlereagh, the British Foreign Secretary, were to become ill for a time so that he could not negotiate the Anglo-Dutch Treaty of 1814, does anyone have any idea who might deputise for him in the negotiations with the Dutch?

[Grey Wolf]

Possibly Edward Cooke ?

I looked up Parliamentary Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and on Wiki found this list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliam...oreign_Affairs

The link to his name doesn't seem to work tho, since it goes to a list of Edward Cookes, none of which is him

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Grey Wolf]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_...um=1&ct=result

At this point, whilst its largely irrelevant, you can see incidental note made of Castlereagh and Cooke corresponding on important issues (1813 actually)


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T...sult#PPA183,M1

Also largely irrelevant, tho it contains an obituary of Cooke's brother (a reverend) - you need to scroll down slightly to find the start


http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=147...2.0.CO%3B2-%23

The blurb on Google about this (since I can't access JSTOR) says
"Edward Cooke had been so long intimate with the family and so much Castlereagh's confidant and adviser through- out his career, that his detailed account of ..." (the duel of 1809 between Castlereagh and Canning)


Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Grey Wolf]

http://www.durham.gov.uk/recordoffic...light=0,iveson

Ref No. D/Lo/C 14
Memorandum from Edward Cooke on the ratification of the treaty with the United States and a note from Cooke to Gouldbourn about the interpretation of the treaty, 1814
(2 papers)

- - -

From what I can gather, Cooke was Castlereagh's deputy first in Ireland, then at the Foreign Office, and was a close and trusted confidant

I guess the question is whether or not the deputy at the Foreign Office would automatically step in for his boss, if the boss was indisposed, or whether the cabinet would appoint some other leading member of cabinet to handle the matter ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Tony Jones]

Thanks for that. It does sound rather like Cooke would at least get a chance to step in in the event of Castlereagh's indispostion.

I wonder if he might then be elbowed out by someone more senior in the government? For example, what about the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Nicholas Vansittart? Or would someone else be more likely to do this?

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by Tony Jones

Thanks for that. It does sound rather like Cooke would at least get a chance to step in in the event of Castlereagh's indispostion.

I wonder if he might then be elbowed out by someone more senior in the government? For example, what about the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Nicholas Vansittart? Or would someone else be more likely to do this?

There might be a difference between who does the negotiations and who does the signing. I don't know any specifics, but I would imagine that a lot of the background work and the hammering out of details was done by the junior staff anyway, perhaps in some kind of committee, whilst Castlereagh headed up the mission and dealt with major issues ?

Thus, you might get Cooke sorting out the detail (which he may have dnoe anyway) and someone else putting pen to paper for His Majesty's Government

The question comes who does the bit in between, fronting the major meeting etc. Vansittart's name popped up in a few places as I was wandering the web earlier, so he seems a possibility

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Grey Wolf]

Interestingly, looking at the text of the treaty at

http://www.guyana.org/Western/1803%20to%201840.htm
(464)

although the Prince of Orange is designated Plenipotentiary and in the body of the treaty referred to as signing it, it is actually at the bottom signed by one H FAGEL on his behalf *(possibly the same Henryk Fagel who also signed the 1824 treaty sorting out left-overs from the 1824 one)

So, depending on the scenario you have it might be possible for the actual signing to be done by Cooke acting for Castlereagh in a like manner. It depends on when you have Castlereagh indisposed perhaps

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Grey Wolf]

I don't really get the point of all these JSTOR links in Google since normal people can't access them, but if you can

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=002...3E2.0.CO%3B2-Y

looks like it would cover what part exactly Castlereagh played in the 1814 Convention of London, and therefore by turnaround what role(s) others would need to play to fill his shoes

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Tony Jones]

Thanks for that, though I can't read the JSTOR links either, alas. Which is a pain, because so many of them look interesting!

Don't think I'm ready or able to pay $14 to find out...

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by Tony Jones

Thanks for that, though I can't read the JSTOR links either, alas. Which is a pain, because so many of them look interesting!

Don't think I'm ready or able to pay $14 to find out...

Ah, I thought maybe you did have access. I know that some people here do, though can't remember who exactly

Any particular focus to your plot that might be fun to look up ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Tony Jones]

Well, the question itself is to do with the PoD for the ATL I'm working on at the moment which is inspired by the British Indonesia thread on the board.

From looking at it to get Britain keeping the East Indies we need to have a different Anglo-Dutch Treaty of 1814, and putting Castlereagh out of the picture for a while seems to be the best way to do it...

Oh yes, and I did come across this which looks fairly relevant...