Tamerlane Has A Son

[Romulus Augustulus]

Okay. Let's say that Tamerlane has a son, but that his conquests go much the same. Let's say that this son takes over after his dad dies during the China expedition and invades Ming China, under the rule of the Yongle Emperor (Zhu Di.) What happens?

[Diamond]

As far as I can remember, Timur did have a son - two or three in fact. One of the reasons the Timurid Empire went downhill so fast is that it was divided among the sons after Timur's death and in typical fashion, they warred against each other for the whole enchilada, just like what happened to many European nations, especially the Frankish Kingdom.

It was this internecine warfare that prevented the Timurids from ever expanding any farther, or even holding onto what they had.

[Romulus Augustulus]

Okay...so what if one of them gets ambitious and eliminates his rival, then goes ahead with the invasion of China? Would he win against Zhu Di, the Yongle Emperor?

[Diamond]

I don't know how successful they'd be, but it would definitely make an interesting TL...

The Timurids better make damn sure they make nice in the west if they're going to invade China. Not too many years before, the Ottomans had their asses handed to them by Timur. If Timur's successor is suffieciently distracted by China so that he weakens the west significantly, the O.E. may decide to get ambitious. And that might be interesting too - if the O.E. is able to expand far into Persia, Sind, and if we want to get really crazy, India, what happens with the relationship between O.E. and Christendom? Does Europe view them as less of a threat, or more?

You've also got to factor in the northern Indian realms that Timur ravaged. What was left wasn't too powerful, but they could prove a thorn in the Timurids' side.

[B_Munro]

Here's a quote from soc.history.what-if on the subject of a Timurid invasion of China I found amusing...

"Coyu Mar 7 2003, 6:37 am show options

Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if
From: c...@aol.com (Coyu) - Find messages by this author
Date: 07 Mar 2003 14:36:52 GMT
Local: Fri, Mar 7 2003 6:36 am
Subject: Re: Tamerlane in China
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Craig Neumeier wrote:



>Assuming a sufficient level of disaster -- and Tamerlane sacking
>Peking in full pyramids-of-head style is a pretty major disaster --


Um. The capital hadn't moved from Nanking yet. Construction
started in 1407, formal transfer in 1421. However, Zhu Di's wife
and eldest son were there during the civil war.


>Alternatively, it has been seriously argued that Yung-lo's nephew Chu
>Yun-wen, the emperor who was usurped, had actually escaped to live on
>many years in hiding.


The big rumor was that Zhu Yunwen was spirited off to a monastery,
where he became a Buddhist monk. After Zhu Di, the Yongle emperor,
died, he supposedly was looked up by the court and offered a pension,
which he refused.

Might even be true.


Assuming complete disaster, the likeliest rallying point would be
either one of Zhu Di's surviving (half-) brothers, who had the
title of 'Princes', or one of Zhu Di's younger sons. Some of the Princes
had extensive steppe warfare experience as well.


Keep in mind that Zhu Di was one big, tough hombre who had
spent most of his life in the saddle, used Mongol tactics, and in
fact had quite a few Mongols in his service.


(The rumor was that he was half-Mongol himself. In truth, he was
probably the son of one of Ming Taizu's Korean concubines --
but officially one of Empress Ma's sons, and don't forget it. But
don't think gracile, think robust. Wrestler, American football type.)


This wouldn't a cakewalk. More like a cage match."


After all, the Chinese _had_ thrown the Mogols out of China recently. If Timur's son isn't as good or better as his dad, the Timurid dynasty may come to naught much even quicker than in our TL. (On the other hand, weren't the Mughals a Timurid family?)

Bruce