Greater C.S.A.

[Strategos' Risk]

What were all of the areas loyal to the Confederacy, besides the 11 states? I know of the Indian Territory and Arizona, but I’m not sure of the border states. I know that some were cracked down upon by the Union, but which were the most pro-Southern states/regions of the states?

Also, there are maps showing the areas of the states where secession fared at the polls, and besides West Virginia, there is a “v” formed by parts of eastern Tennessee, northern Alabama, and western Tennessee. Could any bits of that area be claimed by the Union?

[Farnham]

Do you know where one could view these maps of the polls?

[Strategos' Risk]

Bah. It's in my textbook, and I don't have a scanner handy.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

Also, there are maps showing the areas of the states where secession fared at the polls, and besides West Virginia, there is a “v” formed by parts of eastern Tennessee, northern Alabama, and western Tennessee. Could any bits of that area be claimed by the Union?

Well, as I understand it, the local notables of West Virginia seceded rather than got their lands taken by the Union. You would need something similar in the other states for it to happen. I don't know for sure, but I very vaguely recall an attempt somewhere else that failed

Grey Wolf

[Farnham]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

I don't know for sure, but I very vaguely recall an attempt somewhere else that failed

Grey Wolf

I'm not sure if it got off the ground, but I vaguely recall reading years ago some Unionists started a "secede from the CS" movement in North Carolina or western North Carolina.

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

Also, there are maps showing the areas of the states where secession fared at the polls, and besides West Virginia, there is a “v” formed by parts of eastern Tennessee, northern Alabama, and western Tennessee. Could any bits of that area be claimed by the Union?

That V is mostly in line with Appalachia. The People of Appalachia, especially in the 1860s have strong misgivings about government, they wanted less government. They dont care about state governments or federal governments, the one advantage the Federal government has over the state is it is located in Washington DC, state governments are in their own back yards. In cases like eastern Tennessee and West Virginia the rest of the state usually refused to do anything with the area, western Virginians had to fight tooth and nail to get the B&O railroad to come through the state with little to no help from Richmond who wanted western Virginians tax money but didnt want to use it to help western Virginia. Then you take Richmond ignoring western Virginia's desire to stay in the Union.

[benjamin]

From the looks of the map showing results from the vote for secession in Mapping America's Past: A Historical Atlas...anti-secession sentiment was strong in western Virginia (a given), eastern Tennessee, northern Alabama, and northern Georgia. These are all mountainous regions of the Appalachians that are unconducive to plantation agriculture.

There are scattered "no to secession" districts in every other Confederate state with the exceptions of Arkansas, North Carolina (which is surprising given the anti-Confederate sentiments many in the western portion of the state held) and South Carolina.

As for Confederate support within the Union...many so called Copperheads resided in the southern portions of Illinois, Indian, and to a lesser extent Ohio. Maryland and Missiouri also had many pro-secessionist citizens. California, Kansas, and Delaware had large pro-slavery contingents. Though it is interesting to note that Delaware nearly ended slavery within the state in 1847. The attempt at manumission failed to pass by only one vote.

Benjamin the ex-lurker

[csa945]

I've heard (I think in MacKinlay Kantor's, If the South Had Won the Civil War) that Northern Missouri tended to be pro-Southern and Southern Missouri tended to be pro-Northern, that St. Louis was very pro-Union. Baltimore had a good number of Confederate sympathizers. Don't know about much of Maryland, and I'd say Kentucky tended to side w/ the South, just my best guess, though.

[Strategos' Risk]

So, is there no chance of any other parts of the South going West Virginia, detaching themselves and joining the Union? I guess the parts don't connect, and having a large state of Appalachia will not be allowed by the C.S.

Also, Robert was described Missouri as the 13th state of the Confederacy. What was the 12th? Was there a 14th and 15th? Not counting the Indian territory and the Arizona territory.

[Aussey]

At the time, AZ and NM were New Mexico Territory, and they actually seceded, you can look up there Declaration of Secession, or whatever.

[Spartan]

Where do you guys keep getting Arizona Territory from if all that existed was the New Mexico Territory?

[robertp6165]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

Also, Robert was described Missouri as the 13th state of the Confederacy. What was the 12th? Was there a 14th and 15th? Not counting the Indian territory and the Arizona territory.

Missouri was the twelfth Confederate State. Kentucky was the 13th. There were no others. The Confederacy claimed the Indian Territory and the Confederate Territory of Arizona (which consisted of all of the present day States of Arizona and New Mexico south of the 34th parallel of north latitude. The line runs about 20 miles north of present day Phoenix, Arizona. If the South had won, present day Las Cruces, New Mexico would be in Arizona, but present-day Flagstaff, Arizona would be in New Mexico).

[robertp6165]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Where do you guys keep getting Arizona Territory from if all that existed was the New Mexico Territory?

The Confederate States of America created a provisional Territory of Arizona in July 1861. It was made a permanent Territory of the Confederacy by legislation passed in January 1862, and by Proclamation of President Davis on February 14, 1862.

It is interesting to note that Arizona was admitted to the Union exactly 50 years later...on February 14, 1912. One of the reasons why that date was chosen was because it was the anniversary of the creation of the Confederate Territory of Arizona.

[robertp6165]

Originally Posted by Aussey

At the time, AZ and NM were New Mexico Territory, and they actually seceded, you can look up there Declaration of Secession, or whatever.

You can read the Arizona Ordinance of Secession at the following link.

http://members.tripod.com/~azrebel/page9.html

[Spartan]

How do you find these pages?!

Well explains why Gilbert, Arizona was the hate capital of the world...

[Spartan]

I wonder if Lincoln hadn't crackdown in Maryland if the state would have voted to join the Confederacy. I know Delaware wouldn't have but Lincoln had several Southern sympathizers arrested and replaced by Union soldiers.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Spartan

I wonder if Lincoln hadn't crackdown in Maryland if the state would have voted to join the Confederacy. I know Delaware wouldn't have but Lincoln had several Southern sympathizers arrested and replaced by Union soldiers.

Maryland was quite unlikely to go, as the secession convention (or it may have been just a meeting of the legislature, I forget which) voted decisively against it. There were parts of Maryland with considerable Confederate sympathy (Baltimore, parts of the Eastern Shore), but nowhere near a majority of the state, and those districts which were secessionist were badly placed geographically to receive support from the South.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

So, is there no chance of any other parts of the South going West Virginia, detaching themselves and joining the Union? I guess the parts don't connect, and having a large state of Appalachia will not be allowed by the C.S.

Eastern Tennessee tried exactly the same thing as West Virginia, but the US was hard-pressed to provide support, with limited roads and railroads through the Appalachians and Kentucky's initial neutrality making it difficult to help them. The Confederates crushed the uprising on the principle that secession was all right when they were the ones doing it but a bad thing when people were trying to secede from the CSA. Once the USA got to Tennessee in force later in the war, they were conquering most of the state anyway so there was no point creating a separate state of East Tennessee. But you might be able to create one early in the war, perhaps by removing Kentucky's initial neutrality. Which would incidentally reduce the CSA's already very low chances of successful secession.

Cheers,
Kaiser Wilhelm III

[Strategos' Risk]

Originally Posted by robertp6165

...the Confederate Territory of Arizona (which consisted of all of the present day States of Arizona and New Mexico south of the 34th parallel of north latitude. The line runs about 20 miles north of present day Phoenix, Arizona. If the South had won, present day Las Cruces, New Mexico would be in Arizona, but present-day Flagstaff, Arizona would be in New Mexico).

Can we settle this with a map?

[robertp6165]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

Can we settle this with a map?

Ask and ye shall receive...