More Warsaw Pact members

[Jay]

I have always thought of the idea of more Warsaw Pact members. India and China have come to my mind as what-if members. Also Vietnam after the war. Any thoughts of other members?

[Grand Prince Paul II.]

Other possible memberstates:

(Outer) Mongolia
DPRK
Jugoslavia
Afghanistan
Cuba

[araraya]

Originally Posted by Grand Prince Paul II.

Other possible memberstates:

(Outer) Mongolia
DPRK
Jugoslavia
Afghanistan
Cuba

I'm sorry but I honestly can only see Cuba and Afghanistan Joining maybe Mongolia

Unless Tito dies it aint gonna happen with Yugoslavia
North Korea Joining the Warsaw Pact is mostly ASB on account of them pretty much always being Isolationist sure they accepted help from both the PRC and USSR but still.

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

Additional Warsaw members would be Cuba and Mongolia. Albania had already withdrawn in 1961. Yugoslavia if Tito doesn't became a leader.

[fhaessig]

Depends on when your PoD is.

If the Red army finish the war beyond the Rhine, France, Germany and Benelux are a possibility.

[Grand Prince Paul II.]

Originally Posted by araraya

Unless Tito dies it aint gonna happen with Yugoslavia.

I don't see why a pro-soviet leadership or policy of Yugoslavia should be not possible.

Neither Tito as yugoslavian leader nor the neutral yugoslavian policy in inevitable.

Iñaki's plausible Den Xiaoping not gains the power-TL featured a Yugoslavia which is associated with the Warsaw Treaty Organisation because the NATO support croatian and slovenian separatists.

Originally Posted by araraya

North Korea Joining the Warsaw Pact is mostly ASB on account of them pretty much always being Isolationist sure they accepted help from both the PRC and USSR but still.

The "isolation"-policy of the DPRK was the result of the Kim-regime and the special status of the DPRK. Both are not inevitable and could be changed (a soviet candidat could seize power or a weaker or more pro-soviet china would make a membership possible).

[aktarian]

WarPac was founded as a response to NATO, specially FRG joining it. As both pacts were focused on European theatre (OoA operations came post cold War when NATO was looking for new reason to exist I don't see any other countries joining. What I could see would be some sort of communist pact consisting of countries mentioned.

However the thing is in such bloc countries would be obliged to help each other (read SU helping members). A bit hard to do directly if such member would be in Asia or Africa.

[fhaessig]

Originally Posted by aktarian

WarPac was founded as a response to NATO, specially FRG joining it.

Sure but what if *NATO is US+UK+Spain+Portugal+Italy+Turkey+ Greece+some Balkans countries 5 Chruchill got his wish and the anglo-saxon concentrated on the south of Europe, while the Red army was racing aling the North sea; the allies meet inside France.... and inside Bulgaria ).

*Warpac trigger is when the Spainsh and portuguese dictatorship are accepted in *NATO.

[Communist Wizard]

I remember hearing about an Egyptian leader's deal to the USSR that if certain conditions were met Egypt could become a Warsaw Pact member... My memory is very spotty on this but I do remember hearing it... It was to do with another Israeli war.

[Roberto]

I suppose that if the Soviets got a bit farther in Europe in WW2, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, all of Germany, Yugoslavia, Greece, and Italy could possibly be puppetized under Communist regimes. Hell, France, the Low Countries, and Iberia are all fair bait if we play it that way.

[aktarian]

Originally Posted by fhaessig

Sure but what if *NATO is US+UK+Spain+Portugal+Italy+Turkey+ Greece+some Balkans countries 5 Chruchill got his wish and the anglo-saxon concentrated on the south of Europe, while the Red army was racing aling the North sea; the allies meet inside France.... and inside Bulgaria ).

*Warpac trigger is when the Spainsh and portuguese dictatorship are accepted in *NATO.

that's whole lot of PODs (or one very strong) so basically outside OP.

[Communist Wizard]

Originally Posted by aktarian

that's whole lot of PODs (or one very strong) so basically outside OP.

No. Jay did not specify anything at all... so basically all we've got is 'post-1900'.

[aktarian]

Originally Posted by Communist Wizard

No. Jay did not specify anything at all... so basically all we've got is 'post-1900'.

he said more members. So with Wallies and Sovs meeting in Bulgaria it would be different organisation with different membership, if it would exist at all.

[Cavendish]

Maybe it could expanded as a response to the growing network of US alliances beyond Western Europe. A more successful SEATO?
If the USSR perceives that it is being cornered it may look elsewhere for allies.

Perhaps a stronger, and lasting CENTO triggers a more militarised and lasting UAR? A CENTO without Iraq (excluded for some reason), forces Iraq and the UAR firmly into the Soviet Sphere.

[aktarian]

Originally Posted by Walker

Maybe it could expanded as a response to the growing network of US alliances beyond Western Europe. A more successful SEATO?
If the USSR perceives that it is being cornered it may look elsewhere for allies.

Perhaps a stronger, and lasting CENTO triggers a more militarised and lasting UAR? A CENTO without Iraq (excluded for some reason), forces Iraq and the UAR firmly into the Soviet Sphere.

the problem with that is that it doesn't resolve the basic soviet weakness, no secure connection. WarPac was one thing, it was all linked together. UAR would be vulnerable. I mean SU couldn't intervene in 1973 (had it wanted to) because it had no way of getting troops to MidEast. Unless Iran goes Soviet SU can't do much for UAR.

[bard32]

Originally Posted by Jay

I have always thought of the idea of more Warsaw Pact members. India and China have come to my mind as what-if members. Also Vietnam after the war. Any thoughts of other members?

India was nonaligned during the Cold War.

[Roberto]

Originally Posted by bard32

India was nonaligned during the Cold War.

Hence why this is an alternate history board.

It's quite easy for India to lean to the Soviet side of the Cold War in certain circumstances.

[Cavendish]

Originally Posted by aktarian

the problem with that is that it doesn't resolve the basic soviet weakness, no secure connection. WarPac was one thing, it was all linked together. UAR would be vulnerable. I mean SU couldn't intervene in 1973 (had it wanted to) because it had no way of getting troops to MidEast. Unless Iran goes Soviet SU can't do much for UAR.

Yeah your right.


Maybe a communist Turkey?
Actually it could happen, if we ignore the butterflies and go for an old cliche- Axis Turkey. Or perhaps the SU gets into a scuffle with Turkey & Romania prior to September 1939? Didn't they had some sort of loose anti-Soviet alliance.

After making some concessions in the Caucuses, Turkey goes back to being neutral, and the USSR ends up with a Border to the Arab states. (Very unlikely I know).

[Jay]

can someone make a map of this? i dont know how to make maps

Blue-Nato and British Commonwealth countries

Red-the 'new' Warsaw with countries like Germany and China

[oberdada]

Originally Posted by Roberto

I suppose that if the Soviets got a bit farther in Europe in WW2, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, all of Germany, Yugoslavia, Greece, and Italy could possibly be puppetized under Communist regimes. Hell, France, the Low Countries, and Iberia are all fair bait if we play it that way.

With all of that under Stalins thumb, there isn't enough left to form NATO, and therefore a Warsaw Treaty very unlikely.