Different Treaty of Utrecht

[vtmarxist]

Well, let's say the Spanish and French won the War of Spanish Succession, what terms do you think they would have imposed on the losing side? First off, the French would not have had to cede Acadia to the British and Spain would not have lost the Netherlands? Any ideas? Maybe we can draft a mock treaty.

[vtmarxist]

Bump. Bump. Bump.

[fhaessig]

Palatinate is french.

[Philip]

Best case for the Bourbons:

• Philip becomes (eventually) King of France, Spain, and Naples.
• Spanish Netherlands attached to France.
• Milan transfered to France.
• Savoy makes concessions.
• Spain retains Gibraltar and Minorca.
• Bavaria makes some gains at Austria's expense.
• No asciento.
• Status quo ante bellum in the New World

I doubt the union of the crowns would last long. The Spanish and the Italians will resist French-style centralization. Perhaps the lands are split between his sons. France (plus Netherlands and Milan) remains the senior Bourbon crown. Spain and Naples are established under cadet lines.

[vtmarxist]

Originally Posted by Philip

Best case for the Bourbons:

• Philip becomes (eventually) King of France, Spain, and Naples.
• Spanish Netherlands attached to France.
• Milan transfered to France.
• Savoy makes concessions.
• Spain retains Gibraltar and Minorca.
• Bavaria makes some gains at Austria's expense.
• No asciento.
• Status quo ante bellum in the New World

I doubt the union of the crowns would last long. The Spanish and the Italians will resist French-style centralization. Perhaps the lands are split between his sons. France (plus Netherlands and Milan) remains the senior Bourbon crown. Spain and Naples are established under cadet lines.

I do not think the Spanish would concede the Netherlands so easily, particularly right after they have won a war.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by vtmarxist

I do not think the Spanish would concede the Netherlands so easily, particularly right after they have won a war.

The Spanish can't win the war. It is a war over Spain. If France wins (instead of the OTL Austrian-British alliance), France sets the terms.

[vtmarxist]

Originally Posted by Philip

The Spanish can't win the war. It is a war over Spain. If France wins (instead of the OTL Austrian-British alliance), France sets the terms.

I am no expert in this time period, but I thought it was France, Spain, and Bavaria vs. basically everyone else.

[Susano]

Originally Posted by vtmarxist

I am no expert in this time period, but I thought it was France, Spain, and Bavaria vs. basically everyone else.

It was France, Bavaria, Brunswick, some patrs of Spain having declared for tehz Bourbon pretender versus the rest of the world including other parts of Spain having declared for the Habsburg pretender.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by vtmarxist

I am no expert in this time period, but I thought it was France, Spain, and Bavaria vs. basically everyone else.

It is fundamentally a war between France (and allies) and against Hapsburg Austria (and allies) over whether Spain will have a Bourbon or Hapsburg king. If France wins, the France places her candidate on the Spanish throne. She can extract severe concessions from the new king since he owes his throne to France. Further, the new Spanish king would fully expect to inherit all of France in time. Thus any concessions to France are not (from the Spanish king's point of view) truly a concession.