Go Back   Alternate History Discussion Board > Discussion > Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2601  
Old December 24th, 2010, 03:19 PM
ByzantineCaesar ByzantineCaesar is offline
Kartophylax & Emperor of Opará
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brasil
Posts: 998
Feliz Natal, wishes BC directly from the Imperial capital of Opará, Santos
__________________
The Empire of Opará - an alternate Brazil in the Isaac's Empire world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statichaos View Post
When you play the Game of Threads, you win, or you're banned.
Reply With Quote
  #2602  
Old December 29th, 2010, 08:34 PM
Basileus Giorgios Basileus Giorgios is offline
Hiding from Late Antique Egypt
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: King's College London
Posts: 1000 or more
To round off 2010 for the world of IE, here's a post which should set the tone for 2011. Here's to finishing the TL then!

Soon after Matthew Gregoras’ return to office, his notional deputy, the Bouleuteros Keros began to make trouble. In December 1810, he launched a stinging attack on the Patriarch, the same old Euthymius III who had been promoted twenty five years earlier by Kalamissa. Given that Euthymius had long preached against the old People’s Army, some degree of friction between Patriarch and Bouleuteros was to be expected: but for the first term of the coalition, they had been able to maintain a civil relationship. The Patriarch had even assented to baptising Keros’ newborn daughter Thekla shortly after her father had entered Government. However, by the end of 1810, the pretence of friendship could no longer be kept up.

The trouble broke out in a few small Anatolian villages on the fringe of the great industrial city of Ioannopolis, a stronghold of the Popular Assembly. These villages had seen their rayukalpic links to the main city grid bought down by the onset of an unusually harsh winter. Normally in such circumstances, villagers would turn to their local priest, but the priest in question was one Demetrius Petraliphas, a personal friend of the Patriarch, who was away in Constantinople, and unwilling to rush back to his flock in their hour of need.

The mood quickly turned ugly. A Rhomanian parish priest was supposed to be the rock of his community, the man who had a golden fix for everything. Petraliphas had, in the eyes of the villagers, betrayed them. His large home was torn down, and his wife suffered the indignity of being shorn of all her hair by the furious villagers and then sent begging to the city.

The affair caused a sharp division in the capital, and in the Government. Saner heads, including the Grand Logothete and Emperor, were of the opinion that both priest and flock had behaved badly, and both should be punished, but sadly, their views were entirely ignored. Keros saw the opportunity to bring down the hated Euthymius: and Euthymius, for his part, seized at the chance to continue to fight the good fight against the wretched People’s Army. Keros was the first off the mark, delivering a public address that attacked the Church as “riddled by corruption and an object of abhorrence for the Holy Father”. These were strong words, but even more aggressive was Euthymius’ counter strike on Christmas Day, in which he accused Keros of the ultimate crime: atheism.

A violent conflagration thus burst out, which would rage for a further three years and cast a daily shadow over Gregoras’ valiant efforts to govern. Keros, for his part, was eventually persuaded by the Grand Logothete to back down, but the Patriarch, scenting blood, and egged on by a retired Kalamissa, continued to go on the offensive. This was enough, by the autumn of 1811, to tempt Keros back into battle, and he himself intervened to appoint a loyalist Popular Assembly member as priest of the disputed Anatolian parish whilst Euthymius was away on a groundbreaking visit to Asparovitch’s Tsaritsyn.

Meanwhile, Gregoras grimly battled on. He had eagerly seized upon the unprecedented thawing of relations with Russia as the foreign policy aim that would save his flagging Protoship and the Progressive Party itself, and, despite huge popular opposition, began to drag the Rhomanian government into a position of outright support for Asparovitch. Gregoras was no dreamer. He saw instantly that a liberalised Russia would be a far easier neighbour to handle than a monstrous China that stretched all the way to Poland, and it was with this in mind that he leant his support to Asparovitch during the latter’s glamorous campaigns to expel the Chinese from Russian territory between 1809 and 1815.

Gregoras was also determined to bring reform to Rhomania herself. He continued his first government’s spending on various grand public works, but also set himself the task of dealing with the festering corruption that infiltrated public life. Senators did not receive a proper salary, being funded instead by gifts from their own electors. This had led to a system of ferocious competition for the most affluent Psepharcheia, and more or less total ignorance for the poorest regions. Gregoras, full of concern for the poor, was determined to remedy this through any means necessary.

In July 1811, Gregoras’ desires were suddenly met so neatly that the Grand Logothete would claim divine intervention. His father, Demetres, slipped into insanity, and Matthew became regent for the Grand Duchy of Lybia. Immediately, he began to pour the Duchy’s vast oil wealth into a fund specifically designed to fund Senators from the poorest regions. By the end of the year, ninety three Senators, mostly from the Popular Assembly and Imperial League, were benefiting from the Gregoras reforms. The Grand Logothete had, it seemed, earned himself lasting popularity around the Senate.

In doing so, however, he fell foul of his deputy. Theophilus Keros could not help but see Gregoras’ behaviour as being a direct challenge to his own authority, and his paranoia was not helped by the defection of three Popular Assembly Senators to the Progressives in the course of 1812. Gregoras was rapidly becoming angry about what he saw as entirely unreasonable behaviour from the Bouleuteros, and, in an attempt to reassert his own authority, arranged for a series of meetings with Patriarch Euthymius over the spring of 1813. Keros, realising now that he had made a mistake in attack Patriarch and Grand Logothete simultaneously, retreated. By April 1813, it seemed as though calm had been restored.

Then, out of nowhere, came a blow so devastating that it would destroy the Progressive Party altogether, and utterly change the direction of Rhomanian society more profoundly than anything since the time of Psaras. On April 27th, a party of monks from the Abbess Gemma monastery of Larisa made an announcement. The famous Persian coffin was a hoax, planted by the Progressive local Senate of the Theme of Thessaly.

Gregoras frantically tried to suppress the news, and pass the monks off as liars, but it was all too late when on May 1st, the Strategos of Thessaly lost his nerve, and admitted he had been involved in a forgery, pointing the finger at various Church authorities for encouraging them. As the story worked itself out, it became brutally clear that the Uniate Church authorities had deliberately involved themselves in political decision making on behalf of the Progressive Party, and had exploited the faith of the Rhomanian citizens to do so.

In the space of a week, the Church and Government were both utterly, entirely, discredited. Never in her long history had the Church been so profoundly humiliated. Keros, a deeply religious man, was utterly appalled, and immediately walked out of the Government, taking his Senators with him. The other parties rounded on the Progressives, refusing Gregoras’ plaintive efforts to keep his Government moving. Across the provinces, church attendance collapsed, and various monasteries were looted and burned by a population horrified by what it saw as widespread lies and corruption. Keros was an Imperial hero for daring to stand up to the Church in the first place. Gregoras was entirely vilified.

There was only one figure who the disorientated Rhomanian people felt they could turn to in their hour of need- the Emperor Constantine XIV. On June 26th, a mob several million strong marched on the Palace, begging their Emperor to restore order in the chaos. It was a dream come true for Constantine- a Heaven sent opportunity to escape the prison of constitutional monarchy. Two days later, he issued a series of declarations, proclaiming, in effect, the suspension of the Government until the elections of 1815. Instead, he would take direct rule, advised by a select group of Senators. Matthew Gregoras was put on trial, convicted, and stripped of all rights to the Grand Duchy of Lybia.

All of these measures were enormously popular, but Constantine was intelligent enough to know not to push his luck with the people, despite the private urging of some figures in the Establishment to do just that and to reassert Imperial authority as it had existed back in the time of the Syrian Dynasty. Patriarch Euthymius was thus left in office to enact a sweeping purge of the Church hierarchy- the Emperor thought it best for him not to become involved in religious matters. Similarly, most Thematic governments were left untouched, saved for that of Thessaly, where the Progressive Party was outlawed for no less than fifteen years.

In his two years, Constantine guided the ship of state with a firm and steady hand. He was aided especially by the elderly Joseph Pachymeres, who the Emperor appointed to the position of Sacellarios, briefly the most influential man in the Senate while the office of Grand Logothete was left vacant. Keros, too, was close to the Emperor, doing much to banish the perception of Republicanism that clung around the Popular Front.

There was some enthusiasm for a continuation of the emergency Government in May 1815: the radical Imperialists did particularly well in the elections of that year. Nonetheless, Constantine stood aside to let a revived Imperial League under the command of one of his advisers, Michael Mageiras. The Emperor intended to keep up his influence behind the scenes: but Mageiras was a strong willed man, unwilling to let this happen. His term of office would be dominated by the continuing fallout from the Coffin Crisis and the Emergency Government. The Roman Empire was about to enter a turbulent era.
__________________
Isaac's Empire 2.0 Timeline and Wiki. Updated 28th March.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian View Post
IE is the face of 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900', no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #2603  
Old December 30th, 2010, 12:08 AM
FDW FDW is offline
Biwinning Zettai Ryouiki Lover
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1000 or more
Nice update BG.
__________________
CLINCH THE FIST!
Reply With Quote
  #2604  
Old December 30th, 2010, 12:12 AM
Megas Dux ton Kypraion Megas Dux ton Kypraion is offline
Suvarna Bumi Raja
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 544
Nice update there! Good to see the recent discussion of Senatorial remuneration over on CoJ reflected in the latest bit of political history from the Roman Empire.

It sounds like the Church is ripe for reform. Will Euthymius III be the Patriarch to calm down the unease in the faithful over the religious corruption which led to the Coffin Crisis? Byzantine Cartographer wondered if there would be any 'Protestantism' rising out of this crisis of religion; will a Protestant personality, party or element rise at the heart of the Roman Empire (if only for a while) in protest at priestly neglect of poor folk and exploitation of their beliefs?

By visiting Tsaritsyn (and possibly meeting the Russian Uniate Patriarch?) Euthymius III is becoming the most dynamic Patriarch since Patriarch Luke who Kalamissa brought down by a peg or two. Maybe following the most powerful Emperor for more than 100 years, you could have a Patriarch enter the Symboulion? It would be a powerful symbol of reconciliation between Church and State at a delicate moment in Roman history...

I like the idea of the oil wealth of Lybia being used to fund good causes like Senators from poor backgrounds. Will the oil wealth of the desert be 'nationalised', or will this special fund be used to do other good deeds to ameliorate the social conflicts of Rhomania? If so, the man or woman in charge of disbursing this wealth will be a powerful figure of influence inside the Empire. Could this person be the Emperor himself? By stripping Gregoras of the Grand Duchy of Lybia (and combining the title of Grand Duke with his other titles?) the Emperor could become head of the oil fund and in charge of distributing tens of millions of nomismata to whatever causes he wishes. This could create tension with the Emperor's Government, but it could make the Emperor even more beloved by the Roman People.

Good to see this new character Mageiras rising to the top of the political scene; I await future developments with interest.

Some questions: what of the Dragon Society in this era of Roman history? In 1810 Horváth has been dead for 22 years; what directions has the spy agency taken in the previous generation? With Russia under a 'Liberal' regime, the Society can't be obsessing about Neo-Spartanism so much.

Also, are the scientific and technological developments of the early 19th century (some of which have been described by SF and me) leading to any new social developments or trends inside the Roman Empire, or beyond?
Reply With Quote
  #2605  
Old December 30th, 2010, 10:38 AM
Basileus Giorgios Basileus Giorgios is offline
Hiding from Late Antique Egypt
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: King's College London
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas Dux ton Kypraion View Post
Nice update there! Good to see the recent discussion of Senatorial remuneration over on CoJ reflected in the latest bit of political history from the Roman Empire.
I do try to weave it all in!

Quote:
Byzantine Cartographer wondered if there would be any 'Protestantism' rising out of this crisis of religion; will a Protestant personality, party or element rise at the heart of the Roman Empire (if only for a while) in protest at priestly neglect of poor folk and exploitation of their beliefs?
Hmmm. You might very well think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

Quote:

I like the idea of the oil wealth of Lybia being used to fund good causes like Senators from poor backgrounds. Will the oil wealth of the desert be 'nationalised', or will this special fund be used to do other good deeds to ameliorate the social conflicts of Rhomania? If so, the man or woman in charge of disbursing this wealth will be a powerful figure of influence inside the Empire. Could this person be the Emperor himself? By stripping Gregoras of the Grand Duchy of Lybia (and combining the title of Grand Duke with his other titles?) the Emperor could become head of the oil fund and in charge of distributing tens of millions of nomismata to whatever causes he wishes. This could create tension with the Emperor's Government, but it could make the Emperor even more beloved by the Roman People.
Responsibility for the Duchy's oil will pass to Gregoras' younger brother Alexios, who is a much more retiring and respected figure than his sibling. I think, however, from now on, the Gregoras estate will be forced to provide support to "atone for the sins".

Quote:
Some questions: what of the Dragon Society in this era of Roman history? In 1810 Horváth has been dead for 22 years; what directions has the spy agency taken in the previous generation? With Russia under a 'Liberal' regime, the Society can't be obsessing about Neo-Spartanism so much.
Following Horvath's death, the Society experienced several years of drift and infighting, with the result being that various other branches broke away, and the Society was unable to act effectively to take advantage of the fall of Kobylin in Russia. The D.S. began to "get a grip" under an impressive new leader in 1796, and by 1815 is as powerful and influential as ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas Dux ton Kypraion View Post
Also, are the scientific and technological developments of the early 19th century (some of which have been described by SF and me) leading to any new social developments or trends inside the Roman Empire, or beyond?
Watch this space...
__________________
Isaac's Empire 2.0 Timeline and Wiki. Updated 28th March.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian View Post
IE is the face of 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900', no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #2606  
Old December 30th, 2010, 11:35 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
The Natural
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Southeast Asia's Poland
Posts: 1000 or more
And so the monarchy proves it isn't worthless, for one.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzsche View Post
Is this really Eurocentrism or just someone being painfully stupid?
Reply With Quote
  #2607  
Old December 30th, 2010, 05:38 PM
Basileus Giorgios Basileus Giorgios is offline
Hiding from Late Antique Egypt
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: King's College London
Posts: 1000 or more
No other comments? I must confess to some disappointment- I was pleased with this update!
__________________
Isaac's Empire 2.0 Timeline and Wiki. Updated 28th March.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian View Post
IE is the face of 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900', no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #2608  
Old December 30th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Vosem Vosem is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Real America
Posts: 388
[QUOTE=Basileus Giorgios;3967682]To round off 2010 for the world of IE, here's a post which should set the tone for 2011. Here's to finishing the TL then!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
Soon after Matthew Gregoras’ return to office, his notional deputy, the Bouleuteros Keros began to make trouble. In December 1810, he launched a stinging attack on the Patriarch, the same old Euthymius III who had been promoted twenty five years earlier by Kalamissa. Given that Euthymius had long preached against the old People’s Army, some degree of friction between Patriarch and Bouleuteros was to be expected: but for the first term of the coalition, they had been able to maintain a civil relationship. The Patriarch had even assented to baptising Keros’ newborn daughter Thekla shortly after her father had entered Government. However, by the end of 1810, the pretence of friendship could no longer be kept up.
Yes! Bouleuteros is what I mean when I say 'second-in-command'. Unfortunately, since I just read this today, in the new thing I still use the phrase 'second-in-command'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
The trouble broke out in a few small Anatolian villages on the fringe of the great industrial city of Ioannopolis, a stronghold of the Popular Assembly. These villages had seen their rayukalpic links to the main city grid bought down by the onset of an unusually harsh winter. Normally in such circumstances, villagers would turn to their local priest, but the priest in question was one Demetrius Petraliphas, a personal friend of the Patriarch, who was away in Constantinople, and unwilling to rush back to his flock in their hour of need.

The mood quickly turned ugly. A Rhomanian parish priest was supposed to be the rock of his community, the man who had a golden fix for everything. Petraliphas had, in the eyes of the villagers, betrayed them. His large home was torn down, and his wife suffered the indignity of being shorn of all her hair by the furious villagers and then sent begging to the city.
Ooh, conflict!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
The affair caused a sharp division in the capital, and in the Government. Saner heads, including the Grand Logothete and Emperor, were of the opinion that both priest and flock had behaved badly, and both should be punished, but sadly, their views were entirely ignored. Keros saw the opportunity to bring down the hated Euthymius: and Euthymius, for his part, seized at the chance to continue to fight the good fight against the wretched People’s Army. Keros was the first off the mark, delivering a public address that attacked the Church as “riddled by corruption and an object of abhorrence for the Holy Father”. These were strong words, but even more aggressive was Euthymius’ counter strike on Christmas Day, in which he accused Keros of the ultimate crime: atheism.
Quote:

Would atheism still be punished in Rhomania? Certainly it'd make one unelectable, but would it be an actual crime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
A violent conflagration thus burst out, which would rage for a further three years and cast a daily shadow over Gregoras’ valiant efforts to govern. Keros, for his part, was eventually persuaded by the Grand Logothete to back down, but the Patriarch, scenting blood, and egged on by a retired Kalamissa, continued to go on the offensive. This was enough, by the autumn of 1811, to tempt Keros back into battle, and he himself intervened to appoint a loyalist Popular Assembly member as priest of the disputed Anatolian parish whilst Euthymius was away on a groundbreaking visit to Asparovitch’s Tsaritsyn.

Meanwhile, Gregoras grimly battled on. He had eagerly seized upon the unprecedented thawing of relations with Russia as the foreign policy aim that would save his flagging Protoship and the Progressive Party itself, and, despite huge popular opposition, began to drag the Rhomanian government into a position of outright support for Asparovitch. Gregoras was no dreamer. He saw instantly that a liberalised Russia would be a far easier neighbour to handle than a monstrous China that stretched all the way to Poland, and it was with this in mind that he leant his support to Asparovitch during the latter’s glamorous campaigns to expel the Chinese from Russian territory between 1809 and 1815.
I'd usually supported the Imperial League while reading this, but I find myself quite sympathetic to Gregoras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
Gregoras was also determined to bring reform to Rhomania herself. He continued his first government’s spending on various grand public works, but also set himself the task of dealing with the festering corruption that infiltrated public life. Senators did not receive a proper salary, being funded instead by gifts from their own electors. This had led to a system of ferocious competition for the most affluent Psepharcheia, and more or less total ignorance for the poorest regions. Gregoras, full of concern for the poor, was determined to remedy this through any means necessary.
Thanks for clearing the salary thing up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
In July 1811, Gregoras’ desires were suddenly met so neatly that the Grand Logothete would claim divine intervention. His father, Demetres, slipped into insanity, and Matthew became regent for the Grand Duchy of Lybia. Immediately, he began to pour the Duchy’s vast oil wealth into a fund specifically designed to fund Senators from the poorest regions. By the end of the year, ninety three Senators, mostly from the Popular Assembly and Imperial League, were benefiting from the Gregoras reforms. The Grand Logothete had, it seemed, earned himself lasting popularity around the Senate.
He wants his father to slip into insanity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
In doing so, however, he fell foul of his deputy. Theophilus Keros could not help but see Gregoras’ behaviour as being a direct challenge to his own authority, and his paranoia was not helped by the defection of three Popular Assembly Senators to the Progressives in the course of 1812. Gregoras was rapidly becoming angry about what he saw as entirely unreasonable behaviour from the Bouleuteros, and, in an attempt to reassert his own authority, arranged for a series of meetings with Patriarch Euthymius over the spring of 1813. Keros, realising now that he had made a mistake in attack Patriarch and Grand Logothete simultaneously, retreated. By April 1813, it seemed as though calm had been restored.

Then, out of nowhere, came a blow so devastating that it would destroy the Progressive Party altogether, and utterly change the direction of Rhomanian society more profoundly than anything since the time of Psaras. On April 27th, a party of monks from the Abbess Gemma monastery of Larisa made an announcement. The famous Persian coffin was a hoax, planted by the Progressive local Senate of the Theme of Thessaly.
I'd thought so, somehow...Senate of the 'Theme of Thessaly'? I just got an idea as to where that Bulgarian Senate went by 1800...

Gregoras frantically tried to suppress the news, and pass the monks off as liars, but it was all too late when on May 1st, the Strategos of Thessaly lost his nerve, and admitted he had been involved in a forgery, pointing the finger at various Church authorities for encouraging them. As the story worked itself out, it became brutally clear that the Uniate Church authorities had deliberately involved themselves in political decision making on behalf of the Progressive Party, and had exploited the faith of the Rhomanian citizens to do so.

In the space of a week, the Church and Government were both utterly, entirely, discredited. Never in her long history had the Church been so profoundly humiliated. Keros, a deeply religious man, was utterly appalled, and immediately walked out of the Government, taking his Senators with him. The other parties rounded on the Progressives, refusing Gregoras’ plaintive efforts to keep his Government moving. Across the provinces, church attendance collapsed, and various monasteries were looted and burned by a population horrified by what it saw as widespread lies and corruption. Keros was an Imperial hero for daring to stand up to the Church in the first place. Gregoras was entirely vilified.
I feel really sorry for Gregoras - it really seems like it wasn't his fault and he was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and Keros is benefiting from being a dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
There was only one figure who the disorientated Rhomanian people felt they could turn to in their hour of need- the Emperor Constantine XIV. On June 26th, a mob several million strong marched on the Palace, begging their Emperor to restore order in the chaos. It was a dream come true for Constantine- a Heaven sent opportunity to escape the prison of constitutional monarchy. Two days later, he issued a series of declarations, proclaiming, in effect, the suspension of the Government until the elections of 1815. Instead, he would take direct rule, advised by a select group of Senators. Matthew Gregoras was put on trial, convicted, and stripped of all rights to the Grand Duchy of Lybia.

All of these measures were enormously popular, but Constantine was intelligent enough to know not to push his luck with the people, despite the private urging of some figures in the Establishment to do just that and to reassert Imperial authority as it had existed back in the time of the Syrian Dynasty. Patriarch Euthymius was thus left in office to enact a sweeping purge of the Church hierarchy- the Emperor thought it best for him not to become involved in religious matters. Similarly, most Thematic governments were left untouched, saved for that of Thessaly, where the Progressive Party was outlawed for no less than fifteen years.

In his two years, Constantine guided the ship of state with a firm and steady hand. He was aided especially by the elderly Joseph Pachymeres, who the Emperor appointed to the position of Sacellarios, briefly the most influential man in the Senate while the office of Grand Logothete was left vacant. Keros, too, was close to the Emperor, doing much to banish the perception of Republicanism that clung around the Popular Front.
I doubt the Emperor would really leave the office of Grand Logothete vacant - it doesn't seem unrealistic for him to appoint Pachymeres as a placeholder - he's uncontroversial, fairly popular, elderly, clearly deserves the role, and not in any way involved with the scandal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
There was some enthusiasm for a continuation of the emergency Government in May 1815: the radical Imperialists did particularly well in the elections of that year. Nonetheless, Constantine stood aside to let a revived Imperial League under the command of one of his advisers, Michael Mageiras. The Emperor intended to keep up his influence behind the scenes: but Mageiras was a strong willed man, unwilling to let this happen. His term of office would be dominated by the continuing fallout from the Coffin Crisis and the Emergency Government. The Roman Empire was about to enter a turbulent era.
Did the Radical Imperialists clear the block left by the Rule of Fifty? Could we have a four-party system (IL, Progs, PA, and RI?). I wonder if the Progressives are truly going to die off...

And a guess about this 'turbulent era' that the Empire is about to entering under Mageiras...could this Asparovitch be a Napoleon analogue? He's saved the country from a radical, horrible regime, check...after he's through with expelling China, perhaps he wants to expand...and sees southwest, towards Rhomania, as the best direction towards which in expand? Was the German attack really the Last Siege of Constantinople?
Reply With Quote
  #2609  
Old December 30th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Vosem Vosem is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Real America
Posts: 388
No idea what happened with the quotes...
Reply With Quote
  #2610  
Old December 31st, 2010, 05:11 AM
Byzantine Cartographer Byzantine Cartographer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 24
Excellent update BG! I love that the emperor stepped in and asserted a bit of authority around the state. I may love me some democracy, but there's something so alluring about a monarch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
Hmmm. You might very well think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
I like where this is going!
Reply With Quote
  #2611  
Old December 31st, 2010, 08:18 PM
ByzantineCaesar ByzantineCaesar is offline
Kartophylax & Emperor of Opará
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brasil
Posts: 998
Very, very good update! If I have time I'll comment on it later (I'm heading to Eiffel Tower - Happy New Year!).
__________________
The Empire of Opará - an alternate Brazil in the Isaac's Empire world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statichaos View Post
When you play the Game of Threads, you win, or you're banned.

Last edited by ByzantineCaesar; January 1st, 2011 at 01:12 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2612  
Old January 3rd, 2011, 12:20 AM
Vosem Vosem is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Real America
Posts: 388
I've been thinking about the future of this timeline (and especially my sneaking suspicion that Victor Asparovitch is a Napoleon analogue). I've come up with this lengthy summary of the 'Victorian Wars'. This is my prediction.

Asparovitch beats back the Chinese invasion of Russia, conquers China, and makes it a puppet state (the Rhomanians don't really interfere; China is Neo-Spartanist and therefore bad). And he declares himself Emperor (not Tsar/Grand Prince; Emperor) of Russia. He marries his son off to the only daughter (and heir) of the Sultan of Delhi, so that eventually the two states will be in personal union. Slowly, Asparovitch builds up his armies...

Then, on a date that will be memorized by history students forever, Asparovitch simultaneously attacks Persia, Rhomania, Galicia, and Hungary. He has a new invention; the aeroplane was invented in Russia ITTL; it is much faster and more maneuvrable than a Xenonic Dromon, and when first used against Persia it causes panic. More importantly, total Russian dominance of the skies means that Persia, Galicia, Hungary, Irak, and Poland are all quickly overrun, as is much of Rhomania.

After conquering the Balkans, the army from Persia splits in two, one part (under Asparovitch's personal command) taking Syria, the Holy Land, and Egypt (where Asparovitch discovers the OTL Rosetta Stone). The other army conquers Anatolia.

All of Rhomania is dominated by the Russians except the City itself and the Italian peninsula. Meanwhile, Germany (now faced with a Russian invasion) has stolen some of the airplanes and their front with Russia is basically stagnant.

Germany donates some 'airplanes' to Rhomania (if all the troops Asparovitch is using against Constantinople are freed to Germany...). In an unexpected attack, the Rhomanian navy captures Crete; it then lands at a point just west of Constantinople, drives north to the Black Sea, and strands all the Russians besieging Constantinople in a pocket. The breakout from the east does not help either.

The Russians try to relieve the troops in the pocket via the Euxine Sea, but at the epic naval Battle of the Euxine the Rhomanians defeat the Russians. The troops within the pocket surrender, but the Heroic, Youthful Grand Logothete (TM) who led Rhomania through the crisis has them all massacred. Some escape; one of these nearly assassinates the Heroic, Youthful Grand Logothete (TM).

The victory in Constantinople greatly increases Allied morale and depresses Russian morale. What does not help is that several days later, the line between the Russians and the Germans breaks, in the Germans' favor; they proceed to overrun Poland, Galicia, and Hungary, and enter Russia before they are slowed, all in a matter of just two months.

This has ripple effects across the globe, as Bahrain and Nyapan enter the war on the Allied side, Bahrain (with much help from locals) liberating Russian Persia, and Nyapan (with much help from the locals) liberating Russian China.

The Rhomanians, easily regaining control of the Balkans and Anatolia (but finding stiffer Russian resistance in Syria and the Caucasus), attack the Crimea and take it. A massive Rhomanian army heads in the direction of Tsaritsyn, which is by now being besieged by the Germans. Literally three hours before the epic Russian breakout was planned, the Rhomanians arrive to reinforce the Germans; the breakout fails. Suddenly Asparovitch commits suicide. His 4-year-old son (who had already been Sultan of Delhi for two years) becomes Russian Emperor. The Allies take the town.

And I forgot to mention all those recently independent Indian countries? They're all conquered by Delhi.

The Allies write the terms (with delegates from Bahrain and Nyapan). The Rhomanians will regain their previous Empire; annex Russian Caucasian puppets; annex Irak; annex Galicia and much of OTL Ukraine. and annex all those once-Rhomanian Indian states. The Germans annex Poland, Hungary, OTL Belarus, OTL Baltics, Scandinavian Russia. The Bahrainis get Persia. The Nyapanese, who have Blitzkrieged across the east, get China, Mongolia, and most of Siberia.

The 4-year-old son, Leo, gets to stay Grand Prince (they demoted him from Emperor) of Russia and Sultan of Delhi, but with a regency council appointed by the four Allied Powers. Having annexed all this land, the Roman Emperor (who was present at the negotiations) agrees to grant Hans the title of his ancestors; Holy German Emperor.

And so the conclusion of the Victorian Wars.

I've really become quite obsessed with this TL of late, BG. Splendid work
Reply With Quote
  #2613  
Old January 3rd, 2011, 03:26 PM
Megas Dux ton Kypraion Megas Dux ton Kypraion is offline
Suvarna Bumi Raja
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vosem View Post
I've been thinking about the future of this timeline (and especially my sneaking suspicion that Victor Asparovitch is a Napoleon analogue). I've come up with this lengthy summary of the 'Victorian Wars'. This is my prediction.

I've really become quite obsessed with this TL of late, BG. Splendid work
Hmmm, interesting ...

Well, welcome to the 'Isaac's Empire' Obsession Club; you'll find there are a number of us inmates in this asylum ...

As for the thoughts you express, they are certainly ... inventive. BG as ever will tell (or not) what will be in and what's out.

Just a point on the 'aeroplanes' in this TL: they have been around since the early 18th century. Just in case you, or other readers, have not realised yet:

- 'Aeroplanes' were invented by the Chinese, who called them 'Roaring Kites'
- 'Roaring Kites' came to Europe thanks to the Polish, who called them 'Dragons'
- 'Dragons' have been the main military planes in use by the world's militaries for over 75 years by 1800. In the second quarter of the 18th century, they became metal-hulled
- 'Albatross' now exist (see update on Nyapan on CoJ by SF); they are large, fixed-wing, metal-hulled 'Dragons' capable of Trans-Atlantis flight; some commercial air-transport has started by the beginning of the 19th century.

For other IE technology, inventions and science see: my posts on IE scientific achievements in 1050-1400 and in 1400-1750.
Reply With Quote
  #2614  
Old January 24th, 2011, 10:22 PM
Ganesha Ganesha is offline
શિવા બાળક
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 1000 or more
Are you going to post the second half of this in the Finished Timelines and Scenarios forum?
__________________
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.” Aldous Huxley
Reply With Quote
  #2615  
Old January 24th, 2011, 10:24 PM
Basileus Giorgios Basileus Giorgios is offline
Hiding from Late Antique Egypt
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: King's College London
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganesha View Post
Are you going to post the second half of this in the Finished Timelines and Scenarios forum?
I expect so. Who knows when I'll finish it though
__________________
Isaac's Empire 2.0 Timeline and Wiki. Updated 28th March.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian View Post
IE is the face of 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900', no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #2616  
Old January 24th, 2011, 11:36 PM
ByzantineCaesar ByzantineCaesar is offline
Kartophylax & Emperor of Opará
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brasil
Posts: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
I expect so. Who knows when I'll finish it though
Maybe post the TL from Anna's death to the Psaran Constitution as the 'Modern Era'.
__________________
The Empire of Opará - an alternate Brazil in the Isaac's Empire world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statichaos View Post
When you play the Game of Threads, you win, or you're banned.
Reply With Quote
  #2617  
Old January 27th, 2011, 05:10 PM
Basileus Giorgios Basileus Giorgios is offline
Hiding from Late Antique Egypt
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: King's College London
Posts: 1000 or more
Afraid to say, dear readers, that once again I'm suffering from writer's block. Which is a shame, because I have a lot of fun stuff planned out, including the IE universe's very strange gay rights movement, further conflict between Church and state, and the beginnings of the space race.

Nonetheless, none of this can happen for now. I therefore humbly ask all readers of the TL to provide me with some inspiration, to jumpstart IE for the year 2011!
__________________
Isaac's Empire 2.0 Timeline and Wiki. Updated 28th March.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian View Post
IE is the face of 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900', no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #2618  
Old January 27th, 2011, 05:22 PM
The Stormlord The Stormlord is offline
Reforming from foolishness
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Irrelevant
Posts: 1000 or more
I would like to contribute, Anybody have any links to vital info, and more importantly stuff that can be my 'sphere of influence'?
__________________
So many mistakes.
So much squandered.
Reply With Quote
  #2619  
Old January 27th, 2011, 08:53 PM
ByzantineCaesar ByzantineCaesar is offline
Kartophylax & Emperor of Opará
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: São Paulo, SP, Brasil
Posts: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios View Post
Nonetheless, none of this can happen for now. I therefore humbly ask all readers of the TL to provide me with some inspiration, to jumpstart IE for the year 2011!
Well, I've sent you a PM about my next Opará update but I think you missed it. I've sent it like 2 weeks ago. Do you want me to send it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairos Fateweaver View Post
I would like to contribute, Anybody have any links to vital info, and more importantly stuff that can be my 'sphere of influence'?
Excellent! What would you like to write about? There are several untouched lands in this TL (one example is the Aztec Empire. It was only mentioned in the 14th century and it was said that it converted to Hispanic Christianity some time later). PM either Megas or BG (or me. I'd forward it to them eventually). Welcome to Isaac's Empire!
__________________
The Empire of Opará - an alternate Brazil in the Isaac's Empire world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statichaos View Post
When you play the Game of Threads, you win, or you're banned.
Reply With Quote
  #2620  
Old January 28th, 2011, 10:13 AM
The Stormlord The Stormlord is offline
Reforming from foolishness
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Irrelevant
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzantineCaesar View Post
Excellent! What would you like to write about? There are several untouched lands in this TL (one example is the Aztec Empire. It was only mentioned in the 14th century and it was said that it converted to Hispanic Christianity some time later). PM either Megas or BG (or me. I'd forward it to them eventually). Welcome to Isaac's Empire!
Hmm...I'd like to write about Germany, but I don't know much about it's state TTL, or whether somebody else is already writing about it. Failing that I'd perhaps write about culture and popular culture TTL.
__________________
So many mistakes.
So much squandered.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.