AH Challenge: Very large Asian American population

strangeland

Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to have Asian-Americans make up at least 20% of the US population by 2008 with a POD anytime after 1776. So no 1421 :rolleyes:

Restrictions:
-No cheating (ie no "flesh-eating virus kills everyone not of Asian descent")
-The US may not be conquered by a foreign power after 1850
-The ATL US must have approximately the same borders in 2008 as the OTL US. So no "Rump American state in California;" similarly no Ameriwank scenarios where the US controls half of Asia. Minor variations are allowed however. Hong Kong-type exclaves are also allowed, but frowned upon.

Ready, set, go!
 

carlton_bach

- change in ideology in the 1700s that makes Asians more 'socially acceptable' leads to no legal restrictions on their immigration.

IMO that's really all it would take. We tend to forget to what degree the racial mix in the USA is conditioned by immigration legislation passed in the 19th and early 20th centuries. But maybe as an addition:

- more successful establishment of stablew, prosperous nations in South/Central America, not so much war. They draw a little more of the emigration from Europe. Fewer Italian-Americans, German-Americans, Polish-Americans.
 

ninebucks

Banned
Perhaps if California or somewhere else on the West Coast were to develop plantation agriculture in the 1700s? The Pacific location would make it difficult to import Africans, and so, Chinese would be the best replacement - not necessarily taken in as slaves, but still, as underpaid hard agricultural work.
 

Tyr

Amerika winz war of 1812 and conquas canada and freez ireland.
american civil war they den liberate india and let it be states.



OK, OK, :p
 

Roberto

How about an earlier Mexican-American war, and an earlier expansion to the Pacific?

From there, the Americans engage in heavy trading with China and maybe a newly-opened-to-trade Japan. When the Gold Rush happens, thousands of Asians flock across the Pacific, and form the core of the Western Territories' population.
 

mtg999

I think regardless of how this happens it would have interesting attitudes to American view of minority groups.

Rather than in OTL having the most significant minority groups (African-Americans and Hispanics) being disadvantaged, you would have by the latter half of the 20th century a group that would in all likelihood be richer than most white Americans (assuming Asians keep their 'Model Minority' status).

This would in some ways improve American attitudes towards minorities, but also bear in mind that often 'Model Minorities' are treated worse than disadvantaged minorities (OTL Jews, as well as Chinese in SE Asia).
 

rcduggan

The Taiping Rebellion is much worse and more successful. Millions of Chinese flee the brutal regime and emigrate to the US, arriving in California and Oregon. They settle in the United States.

At the same time, the Taiping overthrow the Qing. After that, Hong X. funds a Taiping style rebellion in Korea and Japan. Both of those countries experience brutal rule by madmen, causing millions of Koreans and Japanese to emigrate to the US.

Twenty million died in the Taiping rebellion, and a similar number (on a lesser scale) would happen in Korea and Japan. There could be as many as 6-10 million immigrants, which would be over 20% of the new population.
 

carlton_bach

You don't need any additional push factors. There's more than enough Chinese to go around in the 19th century, and they were quite happy to come to the United States in huge numbers. You need to get the US government to let them in.
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

There was a supreme court decision that said that, despite the fact that territories like the Philippines were American, that the Philippinos weren't american citizens - weren't covered by constitutional rights, etc. Why this is relevant is the decision was made to prevent Philippinos from migrating en masse to the mainland US. If the decision had been made the other way (which I imagine it should have been from a purely legal standpoint), then millions of Philippinos could easily end up on the Mainland. Or, for that matter, they might be a state (or states) by now.
 

Hendryk

Banned
carlton_bach said:
You don't need any additional push factors. There's more than enough Chinese to go around in the 19th century, and they were quite happy to come to the United States in huge numbers. You need to get the US government to let them in.
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Definitely. In the 19th century, China was facing an acute problem of land shortage caused by the population growth of the previous century, and this in turn was one factor leading to the various uprisings by the White Lotus, the Taiping and others. Literally millions would be ready to sail for the US if given the possibility of doing so.

Perhaps if our dear Frederick Townsend Ward lives on and, once back in the US, helps preempt anti-Chinese legislation?

BTW, as I mentioned in this thread, here's a typical American perspective on Chinese immigration in the 19th century:

Whatever industry they have attacked they have captured; whatever they have attempted they have mastered; whenever there has been an encounter between them and our own people they have come off victorious. And these are said to be the very offscouring of the Chinese ports. If then such results come to us from contact with 130,000 of their lowest grade of intellect, what shall be the measure of their success when free intercourse, open ports, and the attractions of foreign commerce pour upon our shores the numbers they can spare from their 400,000,000 of population?--when their leading men, with subtle intellects, come in conflict with our plodding minds?--who shall dare say which is the superior race until the conflict is over? Every contest between ourselves and the Chinese hitherto has been to them a victory.
Click to expand...

Anti-Chinese cartoon 5.jpg
 

MerryPrankster

How close was the vote for the Chinese Exclusion Act?

Perhaps it doesn't pass, or passes a few years later, meaning more and more Chinese come here.
 

Titus_Pullo

Banned
No 1421 huh? The nature of White people would have to be drastically altered by some alien fooling around with white people's genetic and DNA composition that seems to predispose them to atitudes of racial superiority. (But that would be cheating) A zebra afterall can't change its stripes.
 
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Theodoric

Titus_Pullo said:
No 1421 huh? The nature of White people would have to be drastically altered by some alien fooling around with white people's genetic and DNA composition that seems to predispose them to atitudes of racial superiority. (But that would be cheating) A zebra afterall can't change its stripes.
Click to expand...

Was that intended with sarcasm or irony in mind? I can't see it clearly. Racial superiority isn't a 'white-only' thing, even though it might seem that way.

Ofcourse, it was a substantial factor there at the time. Now, how could we make the American majority more racially tolerant?
 

Titus_Pullo

Banned
Theodoric said:
Now, how could we make the American majority more racially tolerant?
Click to expand...


Impossible, especially in the 19th century and the age of neo-colonialism.

The only way I see a Chinese population of atleast 20% in the US is to have a powerful and industrial China that was every bit as imperialistic, influential and militaristic as Europe and can better be able to advocate and even bully for the rights of its citizens abroad. Ofcourse White Americans would hate them, but from a legislative level, the US won't be able to ban or limit Chinese immigration in the 19th century because of diplomatic and economic preasure from China.
For this to happen the POD would be 1421, but the OP has already said 1421 would be cheating.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Titus_Pullo said:
For this to happen the POD would be 1421, but the OP has already said 1421 would be cheating.
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It would indeed, if only because with such a POD there may be no United States of America.

Now if anyone's interested in a TL in which China begins to colonize the American continent before the Europeans show up, there's an old TL of mine about this very topic, but be warned that it's unabashedly Sinowankish (it also shows its age in terms of AH sophistication).
 

tallwingedgoat

Titus_Pullo said:
Impossible, especially in the 19th century and the age of neo-colonialism.

The only way I see a Chinese population of atleast 20% in the US is to have a powerful and industrial China that was every bit as imperialistic, influential and militaristic as Europe and can better be able to advocate and even bully for the rights of its citizens abroad. Ofcourse White Americans would hate them, but from a legislative level, the US won't be able to ban or limit Chinese immigration in the 19th century because of diplomatic and economic preasure from China.
For this to happen the POD would be 1421, but the OP has already said 1421 would be cheating.
Click to expand...

How's this. No Chinese Rites Controversy. Emperor Qianlong pulls a Meiji in 1750. China buys California from Spain in 1820. Gold Rush ensues which cause mass migration. US invades and conquers Chinese California in 1850.
 

stevep

tallwingedgoat said:
How's this. No Chinese Rites Controversy. Emperor Qianlong pulls a Meiji in 1750. China buys California from Spain in 1820. Gold Rush ensues which cause mass migration. US invades and conquers Chinese California in 1850.
Click to expand...

tallwingedgoat

Two potential problems I see.

a) Why would China buy and Spain sell California. Unless you have a drastic change in not only Chinese power but also its aims. Traditionally, while it sought to have all recognise its superiority it only desired to conquer relatively adjacent regions.

b) If a powerful China does obtain and settle California would the US be able, or willing, to conquer it?

Steve
 
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