Charles II of Spain dies in 1665: an earlier War of Spanish Succession?

[Gonzaga]

WI Charles II of Spain had lived just as long as his brother Felipe Prospero (04 years) and died in 1665, a month later his father's death? Philip IV would have left just two surving daughters: Maria Teresa, who was already married to Louis XIV of France and had a male son, Louis; and Margarita, who was promised to the Emperor Leopold I (but not married yet, since she only married him in December 1666). Would we see an earlier War of Spanish Succession? And how could it go?

[Fearless Leader]

If Carlos II dies in 1665, that still leaves one of Philip IV's sons still alive. Albeit this one isn't legitimate Don Juan was the head of the government of Spain in OTL during this period. With Carlos II dead, I'd imagine he'd use his influence to see to it that the Cortes acknowledged his father and mother's relationship as legitimate (which some argue it might have been) thereby making him the Legitimate king.

Crowned as King Juan I of Spain, he could very well be exactly the kind of Monarch Spain needs at the time. Strong willed, charismatic, intelligent, and with a degree of military skill, under his leadership Spain could very well begin to recover somewhat, although it would be a long road ahead.

As for further Spanish succession, I've yet to find sources on Don Juan's wife. I'd imagine he had one at any rate. And given the fact that he was not legitimate I'd say it's a fair chance that she wouldn't be related to him. If he wasn't married, I'd wager that Juan would seek to marry into a prominent noble family inorder to gain some allies. At any rate, pressure would be on for Juan to produce an heir. Seeing that, if he doesnt, Spain goes down the crapper, let's assume that he does let's call him Philip V.

Philip V is quite unlike any of the Spanish Hapsburgs that had proceeded him. Due to the illegitimacy of his father and the fact that his father chose to marry outside of the Hapsburg family, the genetic deficiencies inerherent within the Spanish Hapsburgs have been watered down to a tolerable level. In essence, the Spanish Hapsburgs have been given a second lease on life.
For argument's sake let's say that Philip V is born in 1666, a year after Juan is crowned.

Due to no conflicts with Carlos II's mother, Juan is healthier and let's say he lives another 10 years, dieing in 1689. Leaving Philip V, a man much like his father, at 23 to assume the throne and lead Spain throughout the tumultuous first half of the 18th century.

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Does the War of Devolution still happen? What's Louis' price for not following up on his son's claim to the throne? Does the period of uncertainty following Philip's death allow the Portuguese to end their war of independence on better terms and keep Ceuta?

[Gonzaga]

Originally Posted by Fearless Leader

If Carlos II dies in 1665, that still leaves one of Philip IV's sons still alive. Albeit this one isn't legitimate Don Juan was the head of the government of Spain in OTL during this period. With Carlos II dead, I'd imagine he'd use his influence to see to it that the Cortes acknowledged his father and mother's relationship as legitimate (which some argue it might have been) thereby making him the Legitimate king.

Crowned as King Juan I of Spain, he could very well be exactly the kind of Monarch Spain needs at the time. Strong willed, charismatic, intelligent, and with a degree of military skill, under his leadership Spain could very well begin to recover somewhat, although it would be a long road ahead.

As for further Spanish succession, I've yet to find sources on Don Juan's wife. I'd imagine he had one at any rate. And given the fact that he was not legitimate I'd say it's a fair chance that she wouldn't be related to him. If he wasn't married, I'd wager that Juan would seek to marry into a prominent noble family inorder to gain some allies. At any rate, pressure would be on for Juan to produce an heir. Seeing that, if he doesnt, Spain goes down the crapper, let's assume that he does let's call him Philip V.

Philip V is quite unlike any of the Spanish Hapsburgs that had proceeded him. Due to the illegitimacy of his father and the fact that his father chose to marry outside of the Hapsburg family, the genetic deficiencies inerherent within the Spanish Hapsburgs have been watered down to a tolerable level. In essence, the Spanish Hapsburgs have been given a second lease on life.
For argument's sake let's say that Philip V is born in 1666, a year after Juan is crowned.

Due to no conflicts with Carlos II's mother, Juan is healthier and let's say he lives another 10 years, dieing in 1689. Leaving Philip V, a man much like his father, at 23 to assume the throne and lead Spain throughout the tumultuous first half of the 18th century.

I liked it, but then we are assuming that the Habsburgs will accept a bastard to be the heir of one of their most important possessions. Seeing how the first Don Juan de Austria was treated despite all his skills I doubt it. And even if they accept Juan probably he would be forced to make his previous marriage nule and marry a good Austrian relative.

My opinion is that the Habsburgs, with all their concerns about their pedigree, would do everything possible to make Margarita become the Queen and then marry her to Leopold. And, even if Juan is accepted, Louis XIV being who he was would try to take advantage of the situation.

Originally Posted by Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy

Does the War of Devolution still happen? What's Louis' price for not following up on his son's claim to the throne?

I'm not sure, these are some of the questions I wanted people help to answer.

Originally Posted by Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy

Does the period of uncertainty following Philip's death allow the Portuguese to end their war of independence on better terms and keep Ceuta?

Well, actually Ceuta chose to remain as a Spanish territory IOTL, so I don't see why would they choose differently ITTL. They still need good military protection, and Spain still has more resources to provide it to them than Portugal.

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Originally Posted by Gonzaga

Well, actually Ceuta chose to remain as a Spanish territory IOTL, so I don't see why would they choose differently ITTL. They still need good military protection, and Spain still has more resources to provide it to them than Portugal.

But if the situation in Spain is messy and war is on the horizon they could decide they need to make peace with Portugal fast.

[Tocomocho]

Originally Posted by Fearless Leader

If Carlos II dies in 1665, that still leaves one of Philip IV's sons still alive. Albeit this one isn't legitimate Don Juan was the head of the government of Spain in OTL during this period. With Carlos II dead, I'd imagine he'd use his influence to see to it that the Cortes acknowledged his father and mother's relationship as legitimate (which some argue it might have been) thereby making him the Legitimate king.

Crowned as King Juan I of Spain, he could very well be exactly the kind of Monarch Spain needs at the time. Strong willed, charismatic, intelligent, and with a degree of military skill, under his leadership Spain could very well begin to recover somewhat, although it would be a long road ahead.

Juan III, actually, as both Castile and Aragon had a Juan II in Medieval times.

As for further Spanish succession, I've yet to find sources on Don Juan's wife. I'd imagine he had one at any rate. And given the fact that he was not legitimate I'd say it's a fair chance that she wouldn't be related to him. If he wasn't married, I'd wager that Juan would seek to marry into a prominent noble family inorder to gain some allies. At any rate, pressure would be on for Juan to produce an heir. Seeing that, if he doesnt, Spain goes down the crapper, let's assume that he does let's call him Philip V.

He did not marry ever in OTL, but he had some affairs there and at least one ilegitimate daughter (so he wasn't infertile, that's sure). When Philip IV was in his deathbed Juan Jose suggested that he could marry one of his half sisters. This made Philip IV so angry that the king gained forces for a moment, left the bed, and tried to smack him with a stick.

I'm pretty sure he did not suggest that because of love, but to reinforce his aspirations to the throne in the case it ended vacant.