Mr Prostitute

[NapoleonXIV]

WI British (and maybe other) navys recognized the sailor's "needs" and incorporated women for just that purpose. How would they actually do this, and what overall effect would it have on discipline, the navy, attitudes to women, history, etc.

[MrP]

Seems a bit open to abuse. I do recall watching a documentary - probably on Channel 4 about the history of homosexuality - in which some RN veteran from WWII talked about how one of his fellow sailors was gay, and how this was overlooked by the officers because it gave the sailors who weren't gay a sexual outlet. I think that was also the first time I ran across the odd idea that one isn't gay if one's not the recipient.

[black angel]

Originally Posted by MrP

Seems a bit open to abuse. I do recall watching a documentary - probably on Channel 4 about the history of homosexuality - in which some RN veteran from WWII talked about how one of his fellow sailors was gay, and how this was overlooked by the officers because it gave the sailors who weren't gay a sexual outlet. I think that was also the first time I ran across the odd idea that one isn't gay if one's not the recipient.

in the navy, oh in the navy

[MerryPrankster]

There were prostitutes on Spanish ships in the Pacific during the Manila Galleon period, who either gave birth or plied their trade near the guns--the term "son of a gun" comes from there b/c it was rather difficult to establish paternity in such cases.

[fernerdave]

Ive been readin them Aubrey-Maturin books by Patrick O'Brian, and if its to be believed, it differed from ship to ship-from the puritanical to the unrestrained.
as far as having women aboard. In one instance, Jack Aubrey recalls the scene on the lower decks of a 74 gun ship (a big one at least) on the west indies station.....and every time they are in a port the doctor has plenty of cases of STIs...

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by MrP

I think that was also the first time I ran across the odd idea that one isn't gay if one's not the recipient.

I recall reading that it's a fairly common idea in several cultures, as well as in all-male environments such as jails. Which explains how the perpetrators of prison rapes can go on thinking of themselves (and be thought of by their peers) as impeccably straight even though they've willingly committed a homosexual act.

Oh, and while I'd have to look it up, IIRC Zheng He's treasure ships had prostitutes onboard.

[Fellatio Nelson]

Up until the early 19thc they did; lots of ships of the line had various unauthorised 'passengers' down amongst the waisters whilst at sea - often known about by all, but officially unrecognised and doubtless at the whim of the captain.

[Tyr]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

I recall reading that it's a fairly common idea in several cultures, as well as in all-male environments such as jails. Which explains how the perpetrators of prison rapes can go on thinking of themselves (and be thought of by their peers) as impeccably straight even though they've willingly committed a homosexual act.

Oh, and while I'd have to look it up, IIRC Zheng He's treasure ships had prostitutes onboard.

That is the 'real way'.
The Greeks of course thought manlove was a bit of fun most of the time.
The Romans were a bit more prudish though; but they still thought it totally fine if you were the one in the 'top' position in such acts. It showed you were the dominant man humiliating the other and he was the only one doing the gay act.

[MrP]

Originally Posted by Leej

That is the 'real way'.
The Greeks of course thought manlove was a bit of fun most of the time.
The Romans were a bit more prudish though; but they still thought it totally fine if you were the one in the 'top' position in such acts. It showed you were the dominant man humiliating the other and he was the only one doing the gay act.

With the Greeks it was looked on as part of an older man teaching a younger man. One was definitely looked at askance, if one didn't become a top when one got older - I recall there's at least one joke in Aristophanes about some chap who's considered effeminate for that reason.

[fernerdave]

Originally Posted by Leej

The Romans were a bit more prudish though; but they still thought it totally fine if you were the one in the 'top' position in such acts. It showed you were the dominant man humiliating the other and he was the only one doing the gay act.

I think it the same thing in our prisons. thats why they dont consider themselves gay, its just dominance (with the added bonus of a "full release")