AH Challenge: Walking tanks!

[strangeland]

Your challenge is, with a POD no earlier than 1900, to have walking armored fighting vehicles (think along the lines of the AT-ATs and AT-STs from star wars or the giant spider from Wild Wild West) used in combat by 2008.

ready... set... go!

[papal duke]

Originally Posted by strangeland

Your challenge is, with a POD no earlier than 1900, to have walking armored fighting vehicles (think along the lines of the AT-ATs and AT-STs from star wars or the giant spider from Wild Wild West) used in combat by 2008.

ready... set... go!

asb, or a least to my understanding

[Earling]

Can't see why it would be ASB, you could certainly make one of those with modern technology.

The issue would be why? As far as I can tell these vehicles would just be far worse than traditional tanks in any situation imaginable.

[The Militant One]

Because they look cool, thats reason enough. The challenge is to creat a TL not examine practicality.

[Ofaloaf]

A simple deviation from our timeline ought to do it! Behold:

1937: Nazi scientists begin development of mechanized legs for use in vehicles- namely propaganda vechicles, although they were intended to appear militaristic just because that's how Nazis roll.

1940: A prototype walker is made. A complex relay system takes up nearly half of the interior of the vehicle, while the four legs of the walker are prone to breaking down with pneumatic pumps that leak with every step.

1941: Walkers begin being shown in German propaganda films.

1944: With Allied and Soviet troops closing in on Germany, the military is desperate for any resources- manpower, machines, anything that can help. A few German Walkers are drafted into the service, with actual armor welded on and a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on top. It sees limited use, as it's tendency to break down at the most inopportune times leads to abuse of the machine from soldiers within the German Army.

1945: The last combat-ready German Walker collapses on itself fighting Allied forces west of Berlin. Later in the same battle, the remaining ammunition stored inside explodes, and the charred remains are run over by several tanks. The metal remnants are later salvaged and used in several postwar latrines.

1946-1989: Soviet and American forces experiment with the original German Walker design. By the 1970s, being assigned to the Walker projects of either country was a clear sign of disfavor by one's superiors, as the projects had proved a massive waste of time.

1988: George Herbert Walker Bush is elected President of the United States. This is just a coincidence.

[Redem]

I'm not sure but isn't a wheel more efficient in that particular case?

[Ofaloaf]

Originally Posted by Redem

I'm not sure but isn't a wheel more efficient in that particular case?

Aren't they always?



The thing is, you can get away with the absurd for Nazis. They were all nutters, and desrved to have their asses handed to them for designing the stupidest shit.

[Fenwick]

1917- Following the Battle of the Piave Italian soldier Antonio Gagliardini, a factory engineer who oversaw the modification of FIAT plants to produce tanks, writes a series of essay’s covering the central idea of an armored vehicle designed for rough terrain.

1922- Italian company Carro Veloce creates a four legged “Goat” tank or Walker as they came to be known. It goes only 5 mph, but can move along step grades, and rough terrain with ease. Armed with only a machine gun, it is seen as a very interesting weapon, but not at all the same as the impressive progress of the standard tank.

1936- The CV-22 and CV-34 walkers see combat for the first time during the Second Battle of Tembien. They perform well enough, but many think they are slowing down the army too much, and as such are used sparingly.

1938- German designers get a hold of a single walker and work on it to see if the speed issue can be fixed to better use them for mountain combat. What occurs is the so-called Zahn Limit System, which clearly shows that the weight of the main armament must be a quarter the weight of the leg suspension system in order to keep speeds above 12mph. As such the Germans toss aside the Walker, yet the Italians enjoy the new breakthroughs.

1941- During Operation Marita the Germans find themselves using Italian Walkers to move over the rocky, and hilly regions of Greece. The 22mph CV-39 armed with a 20mm cannon, and a machine gun comes into its own, and is outright copied by the German after Hitler demands a Walker for the Third Reich.

1944- As Operation Market Garden went underway the British and Americans find their actions slowed by the German built PzFw-42, or the Chicken as the Americans called it. Simply a few machine guns, and a short barrel 120mm anti0tank gun it quickly showed itself as a deadly weapon in the cities. However speed was always an issue, and a single shot to the leg could cripple the thing.

1945- The Battle of Iwo Jima proved two things, first that Japan was keeping a secret weapon close to the Home Islands, and that the Walker was a weapon to be feared. Unlike the Italians, or Germans who saw the Walker as a weapon to fight tanks, the Japanese stuck closer to the original intent of the weapon. The Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Type 4 Chi-Ka walker was responsible for close to 1,900 of the 8,000 casualties during the battle. Armed with one 20mm machine gun, and two Type 1 heavy machine guns. Able to go 25 mph, but most went at 20mph due to the terrain. These added mobility, armor, and firepower to the Japanese defenders. As but fifteen were on the island at the time, they did much damage to the US marines in the region.

1953- As the Korean War comes to a close the world looks out at the newer weapons of war. The jet, the massive tanks, and now the Walker. While not a deciding factor in the conflict the newly created American Hardy Class walker proved itself in crossing the mountains, and even against the better armed Soviet IFW-49. While still unable to go faster then 25mph, the Walker looks to be one of those support weapons many militaries are adopting.

[Redem]

Originally Posted by Ofaloaf

Aren't they always?

Well for stairs I think legs are more efficient

[Fenwick]

Originally Posted by Redem

Well for stairs I think legs are more efficient

Ever see Robocop?

[Redem]

Originally Posted by Fenwick

Ever see Robocop?

Well I think it was a footing problem not a leg one

[Ofaloaf]

Originally Posted by Redem

Well for stairs I think legs are more efficient

Where would a Walker encounter stairs? An AT-ST can't fit inside of a building, after all.

[Redem]

Originally Posted by Ofaloaf

Where would a Walker encounter stairs? An AT-ST can't fit inside of a building, after all.

Well I guess its a question of design and circonstence, as if wheel were always more efficient than legs we wouldn't need access ramp

anyway thinking and producing a mechanical leg probably way more costy than what we we use presently with tank

[jkay]

When I first read this proposal, I thought, cool, but ASB for sure. But now I've thought of an alternate history that could make it be used ENTIRELY INSTEAD OF the tank. NOTE: until today, I think, there's be fewer walkers than tanks in most fights because they're more expensive and less reliable.

POD: The British tank prototype's missing a screw, causing it to fall to pieces the second it hits a trench in a demo to MPs.

You know, the tank was NOT the slightest bit obvious before it was invented. Many inventions were linear projections of what had gone before, but not the tank. The Allies were looking for any sort of solution that could carry armor like an armored car but could also cross trenches.

A Briton, comes up with the idea of armored cars that can jump, either into and out of, or maybe even over trenches. He calls it a "walker," of course, saying he was inspired by canes. Mark I looked like a small armored car on top of 3 of the pogo sticks that were more less contemporaneously invented. The sticks are motor-powered, and controlled to move together from a single long toggle. There's also a jump button. It works to get in and out of trenches, but takes massive training to use.

Mark II adds linked hinges to the legs so they're at least vaguely stable. There's also a support added between the legs. This version sees action, and can cross trencehes, with some luck. Now it faces the same long delay to get accompaying military tactics right as the tank did OTL. Mark IV is bigger, so it can carry decent-sized guns, and used with the new walker tactics to break German line after German line, again like the tank OTL. It's still a light walker by modern standards, though.

The Nazis invent Wolfleg Walkers to terrify their enemies and work better. The WWI walkers looked silly and had high failure rates. Both problems are solved by the Wolflegs. They attach sleeves to their drivers' legs, so the driver can use more natural walking motions to navigate on two legs. They look much scarier, too, since they look like huge iron legs driving along instead of three off-balance pogo sticks. But they're strictly for light use, and for severely irregular surfaces. They used more traditional legs for their heavy tanks. After the war, there's much speculation over if their almost-ready line of Wolfleg heavy walkers could've turned things.

Today's newest walkers use computer technology to balance better than humans, and boast big guns and reactive armor. They're being used for patrollng today in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Actually, you don't have to go too far back in time to make the ATL work. Just consider that the U.S. Army contracted General Electric (GE) to build "walking trucks":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_Truck

Unfortunately, it moved at a sluggish 4 miles an hour, making it problematic for combat situations. They also tried to make a powered-exoskeleton in the form of Project "Hardiman" in 1965. Check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardiman

As such, imagine the results of a Vietnam War wherein the robotics described were made both fast enough and cheap enough to justify the deployment in the field....

[mattep74]

Originally Posted by Mr_ Bondoc

As such, imagine the results of a Vietnam War wherein the robotics described were made both fast enough and cheap enough to justify the deployment in the field....

The north viatamese take a tactic from the Skywalker/ewoktactic and lure it into ambushes and make it trip?

[Doeth]

Originally Posted by Earling

Can't see why it would be ASB, you could certainly make one of those with modern technology.

The issue would be why? As far as I can tell these vehicles would just be far worse than traditional tanks in any situation imaginable.

Well the helicopter is much less efficient than the wing, but it has found its own special niche. Maybe walkers could do something like that?

[Promethean]

why dont just copy Gundam wing...

[Slowpoke]

Most of the folks here are thinking about 'mecha' style biped walkers. A more plausible discussion would be about 4 or even 6-legged ones. The timeline posted by Fenwick is a nice example. A sort of niche (support) machine for traversing extremely irregular/broken terrain, rather than the PKs of Silent Storm 'fame'.

[Broz]

maybe a desert vechile of sorts? something light reconasance

but generaly its a silly idea

yes i think silly is the word for it
still interesting sortof, if you look at the old documentary films of soviet prototipe tank experiments you see they realy considered any idea, tried out a lot too