The Goering Succession

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Four years to the day since he had become Fuhrer, Hermann Goering stood upon the platform and received the adulation of the massed ranks before him. The heils went on and on, swelling to a roar which seemed to enveloped the whole of the arena. Goering, resplendent in the pilot's leathers he had adopted as his uniform in the latter part of the war, stood and received the acclamation, a slight smile on his handsome visage.

It was of course also four years to the day since the American nuclear bomb had taken out Berlin; the two anniversaries were inextricably linked. President Byrnes had thought to chop the head off Nazi Germany and render it helpless, but he had badly miscalculated, an error for which he had paid for two years later with his impeachment and dishonourable expulsion from office. His Vice President had had but a couple of months in his turn before being similarly ejected, this time by the electorate in a landslide for the Republican opposition.

Almost two years later, and President Taft's United States hovered on the brink of renewing formal diplomatic relations with the Greater German Reich, something which had seemed unthinkable, outrageous even at one stage, but which the exigencies of Fate, and of a world now made more dangerous by their respective growing arsenals of nuclear weapons made necessary. As part of that process, Ambassador Vandegrift had been welcomed as a Guest of Honour here at the new German National Day, and even he could not avoid the irony of the situation.

His own war had been fought in the Pacific, from commander of the first Marine division to take to the field against the Japanese in the US counter-attack to leader of the assault on Bougainville. After that, President Roosevelt had recalled him to Washington to give him command of the entire Marine Corps, but he had fallen out of favour, like so many others, with Roosevelt's successor and had languished in occupation duty in Tokyo, replacing MacArthur who had been summoned to Europe for the Final Push. Vandegrift could sneer at that now, but back then he had felt snubbed and angered by being pushed aside. Now, he saw it for the blessing it had been - the one place to be to escape the fall out from the debacle of 1947 had been Japan. Unlike many of his contemporaries he had come out of the war with his reputation intact and had retired a four-star general at the end of his duties in Tokyo.

Now he was back in action, albeit of a different sort, appointed Ambassador to Nuremburg as much for his military credentials as for his lack of any direct combat experience against the Germans. It was a sometimes uneasy path to tread, but the dichotomy so far was playing well, both back home in the US, and here in Germany. But he still wished he did not have to endure this ceremony, knowing from his briefing just how long it was planned to be, as Nazi Germany congratulated itself in its annual ritual of martial festivities.

The Ambassador was not the only one feeling less than fully enthused about the prospect of the day's entertainment. Walter Schellenberg, Head of Reich Intelligence stared on impassively as Goering began the annual address to the faithful, and they did not get any more faithful than the serried ranks out there, sweating in the sun this hot August day. Set back on the platform, Schellenberg at least had a degree of shade, though the prospect of standing for hours hardly thrilled him. Still, there was always something to learn by watching, so he watched...just not the ceremonies; he watched his fellow leaders of the New Germany

After the nuclear bomb had decapitated the national leadership, so much had come down to whether the shadow organisations established by the Party and by the SS were able to pick up the ball and run with it. Ribbentrop, who had been in Budapest, meeting with a recalitrant Horthy, had had no trouble simply supplanting the now extinct Foreign Office, as von Neurath and his staff had been reduced to little more than civil servants working in his shadow by years of Nazi rule.

It had been momentarily touch and go with the Armed Forces High Command. The shadow OKW had been created in early 1942 to 'advise' the Wehrmacht, Jans Juttner as Head of SS Main Leadership Office being promoted to control it. Already having had responsibility for the organisation and administrative leadership of the Waffen SS, Juttner had been ideally placed to take on this role. Instructed by Himmler to get the best deal for the Waffen SS, and to make sure the other services took their needs seriously in strategic planning, the shadow OKW had been accredited with liaisons from the army, the Luftwaffe, the Kriegsmarine and from Signals.

Schellenberg now watched the man who had emerged from the chaos of those days in 1946 as head of the new SS-controlled OKW. Joachim Hartmann was a relatively non-descript fellow, six foot tall, average build, thinning and greying hair though he was scarcely older than Schellenberg himself was. He had been a medium-ranking Luftwaffe official, something of an administrative genius but disposable enough for Goering to have assigned him to the role of liaison. His advice and recommendations had proven astute, and had worked both ways, his reports back to Goering managing to create a change in strategic policy that was at once useful to the Luftwaffe and to the long-term goals of the SS, and thus the Reich.

Himmler had rewarded him with the offer of an SS commission, which Hartmann had taken, much to Goering's muted disgust, but in 1944 nobody had taken the shadow body seriously, and the dichotomy of the Luftwaffe liaison also holding rank in the SS had not been of great concern. Indeed, many of Hartmann's contemporaries had viewed it as being a blight on his career, a final curtain to his ambitions. But August 24th 1946 had changed that...

The nuclear bomb which had killed the Fuhrer, and also taken out Reichsministers Goebbels and Speer and Reichsleiter Bormann, had also wiped out the top echelons of OKW and OKH. The Americans had chosen their moment well, but had gambled without taking into consideration an organisation of which they knew little, and which they cared about equally little. But two years previously, Schellenberg himself had played a role which ought to have told US intelligence what might happen. It was Summer 1944, a hard fought Summer, especially in North Africa, and Abwehr reports were proving not only infuriatingly vague but often as not plain wrong. Himmler had ordered close surveillance of the main figures in Military Intelligence, and the suspicious behaviour of one had been all it took.

As second only to Canaris, Hans Oster was a significant figure in his own right, and as his superior's chief of staff. Himmler had reported to the Fuhrer, and Hitler had approved the taking out of the Abwehr leadership and the impressing of its rank and file into the organisation now headed by Schellenberg. It had been as ruthless as the Night of the Long Knives, which had incidentally seen Canaris' predecessor as head of the Abwehr purged, and it had been a surprisingly easy success. Canaris and Oster had been shot, and Schellenberg had almost seemlessly taken over the running of military intelligence, a position his office was already well-placed to take on.

He smiled to himself at the memory, and continued to observe Hartmann. He had emerged as a favourite of Himmler during the Cyprus Offensive, when he had argued Goering into releasing the gigantic flying boats he had co-opted from Blohm & Voss. The success of that operation, and especially of the SS Paratroop Division, operating for the first time at this greater size of force, had helped Hartmann to cement his position as very much the number two person in the organisation behind Juttner.

Schellenberg recalled being only vaguely aware of the fellow throughout 1944 and 1945, Hartmann being a name on intelligence dossiers, word of mouth reports, nothing really to concern himself as if he were anything, then Hartmann was a committed and loyal Nazi. Only as 1946 wore on had Schellenberg begun to wonder at Hartmann's successes, seeing a sharper mind than he had previously given credit for, and a man who was personally received by Hitler, Himmler and Goebbels with glowing praise thereafter, a man nevertheless still in daily contact with then-Reichsmarschal Goering, as if to square the circle.

Schellenberg remembered where he himself had been when news of the nuclear bomb upon Berlin had come in. He could not but recall that moment without a shiver down his spine, as if someone had taken the world he had known and shaken it up, like bubbles of froth within a bottle of beer. He had been in Hamburg, almost laughably now for a meeting about ex-Abwehr agents believed still to be operating in the USA. The radio operator had come in, ashen-faced and weak-kneed, no doubt a performance that had been mirrored up and down the Reich. Berlin was gone, the Fuhrer was dead, the US President was being broadcast over British radio...

Even he himself had worried, and if he were honest with himself, had doubted, but Schellenberg had known his duty. He had flashed the news to Karinhall, had telephoned Wawelsburg and been put straight through to Himmler. The Reichsfuhrer had been calmness and serenity itself - Goering would accede as fuhrer, he had said, and Juttner's organisation would take over from OKW with immediate effect. Schellenberg had kept in minute-by-minute contact with Kaltenbruner's SS security command, ever prepared for an uprising, a sudden desperate throw by the anti-Nazi opposition, but nothing had happened. Instead had come the word that Goering would broadcast at Midday, from an undisclosed location, and that the shadow OKW had taken full control of the armed forces of the Reich

Schellenberg suppressed a wry grin. He was still here, Himmler, Goering, Klammer were still here, but Juttner was but a forgotten memory. The new Fuhrer had indeed broadcast to the nation, on the hour, on the second of Midday - later it would be revealled that he was at Party HQ in Nuremburg, but at the time it was beyond a state secret to know that, even Schellenberg had had to ask Himmler and wait for the Reichsfuhrer to learn from the mouth of Goering himself. With Bormann and Goebbels dead, Party HQ was running itself, no one in command, all systems operative, the chicken without its head, but in perfect running order

It had taken just a week for it to happen, Schellenberg again remembered as he viewed the still and static figure of Hartmann across the platform. Juttner had been appointed Acting Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces Command, but never fully confirmed in the role. Goering and Himmler had met - at Berchtesgaden, it would later be revealed, but at the time that was another deadly secret. Afterwards, Juttner had been eased sideways, and would later enjoy the role of Co-ordinator with Germany's Axis allies, and Hartmann had been promoted to head the new SS version of OKW. From there they had gone on to win the war...

Schellenberg snorted, silently and unobtrusively, but to his own mental faculties it was a snort indeed. Popular legend held Hartmann responsible for victory, but popular legend did not know it all. When the time came for the history of the the twelve months from Summer 1946 to 1947 to be written, history would have other names to cast into the frame. His own would be foremost amongst them, but of course Goering and Himmler would have great parts to play, but historians would nevertheless never be really sure what was their doing, and what was that of those beneath them. Schellenberg aimed to make certain that his own role was never done down, that was for sure.

And of the others ? Doenitz, Dietrich, Guderian, Rommel, Galland, Porsche, Heinkel... All had been named as Heroes of the Reich the previous year, the third anniversary, the third National Day, with him alongside them of course. Schellenberg would not have had it otherwise. To be too elevated whilst still in his prime would have been dangerous, and was a role only for the failing health of old age, like the last World War One Field Marshal Mackensen had been awarded a year ago too - a state funeral, despite the problems his support for the church had given the Nazis. It was the legend that spoke in the end, and it was the legend that had been remembered at the memorial service, no mention of the embarrassing incident of the so-called Moelders Letter. No, the old Field Marshal had been fully rehabilitated by death, and those who remembered otherwise now officially misremembered. That was the way to go.

Hartmann had not moved in all the time that Schellenberg had been watching him. He was good at waiting, marking his time, that he had to give him. What would happen in the years ahead ? With the Fuhrer in rude health, he could last decades, but there would be manoevrings for power beneath him, and in the final analysis there would be the question of the succession. In a meritocracy that could go to anyone. Hartmann had proved that at OKW, Schellenberg himself had proved it at Intelligence...


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
2

President Robert Taft listened to the radio commentary, and winced. In many ways it was beyond a joke that Nazi Germany was celebrating its survival, its success in so ostentatious a manner, but as his advisors never ceased to tell him, that was the Democrats for you, or rather their legacy. Roosevelt had been a popular president in peace time, his domestic policies giving hope, even if economists now doubted the actual realistic worth of the New Deal. But in war, he had been little short of a disaster. Japan had attacked without warning, Hitler's Germany had followed with a declaration of war, and though American armies eventually forced their way across the Pacific, the US Navy coming to win battle after battle, the front against the Germans had been nothing short of disaster

Taft did not use the word lightly, even in his thoughts. December 1941 to December 1944, that had been Roosevelt's period in office against both powers. True, he had turned the war in the Pacific around, seen Japan driven back towards defeat, but secret documents for the president's eyes only - his eyes only, Taft thought calmly - had shown that Roosevelt never need have fought that war in the first place, that Japan had surely slipped one over the United States and had caused the death of countless US servicemen by that success. If Roosevelt was to be praised for turning the tide against Japan, he was to blame for the outbreak of war in the first place

Against the Germans it had been even worse ! The occupation of Morocco and most of Algeria had gone according to plan, but the German counter-attack had wiped out Eisenhower, taken Patton prisoner and wounded Bradley. Only luck had saved the latter, but at the time it had been an irrelevant detail as German forces, bulked out by Jochen Peiper's Waffen SS Panzers and aided by Italy's elite, had driven the Americans back.

FDR had stood down that year, tired and ill, and Byrne had taken the nomination, a strong man for a hard task, as the Democrat propaganda would have it. But these days any American could tell you that Byrne was an arrogant bastard who believed his own rhetoric too much. Any high school kid could tell you Byrne was to blame for the nuking of the Calais invasion fleet, and for the crippling of MacArthur's counter-thrust before it had even begun. They would no doubt also blame Byrne for the global economic collapse upon British Prime Minister Attlee's repudiation of debt to the USA, but by then things were running so loose anyway that Byrne had already been indighted on charges leading to Impeachment

Taft thought back to those days, of his shock realisation that what had started as a political ploy actually had the legs to run as a realistic possibility. Democrats had voted against their own president in shame, others had abstained, and the Impeachment had gone the full course. Byrne had been thrown out of office, and as the leader of the Republican movement on this, Taft had been the natural candidate in 1948's elections

Now he was the one reopening diplomatic relations with the Nazis, and a part of him could scarcely believe it. If there was one thing on this planet that he hated, it was a committed Nazi, but if there was one thing that he feared even more than this hatred, it was the prospect of nuclear war with Nazi Germany. True, Germany had been able to produce nuclear bombs only at a ratio of one-to-two of the United States, and true too that none had ever got anywhere near the US, but Nazi Germany was the undisputed leader in ballistic missile technology, and in their latest generation of long-distance bombers could match the United States in its ability to hit their adversary across a whole ocean - perhaps not in the numbers of such aeroplanes, but it would only take a single one to deliver a nuclear bomb...

Taft viewed himself as not having had a choice. The alternative was even more of a nightmare than dealing with the Nazis, of accepting von Papen as Ambassador to Washington, of sending Vandergrift to Nuremburg to represent US interests. He did not envy the General his new role in the new Nazi capital, and as he listened to Goering make his annual address to the nation, Taft pitied the fellow even more. Surely nothing useful could be gained from attending such a propaganda-filled event, but it was necessary as a step towards restoring full diplomatic relations.

Taft shook his head, and stared down at the blank sheet of paper in front of him. He would have to say something to the American nation in the aftermath of Goering's speech, but this year it could not be his usual rant against Nazi evils. He had dismissed his speechwriters, determined to do this himself, but as he sat there, he realised that he had nothing to say...nothing to say at all !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
3

The 10th Duke of Devonshire paced his rooms in a silent fury. How dare the BBC relay this disgusting rubbish out of Germany ?! But ever since the Liberal victory in the aftermath of the economic collapse, the UK had been to Hell in a hand-basket. He fairly shook with anger. To think that his own eldest son had perished fighting these bastards, killed by the nuke that exploded above the invasion fleet in the Channel ! And now this, this indescribable appeasement ! For he was sure that was what this was - a New Appeasement, as the right-wing newspapers had it

He came to the window overlooking the main road, and stood stock still. The interpreter's voice still relayed Goering's words to his ears, but now he observed the scene on the road outside. He frowned at the sight of an Alvis sitting at the turning, all burgundy-and-cream, pre-war colours if there was such a thing. Had its owner hidden it during the years of blackout, or was it newly repainted ? No, it did not seem to be; he could see scratches along its side. How odd...

And what was that, parked opposite the Alvis ? Surely it was a Horsche ! The hairs on the back of his neck rose. A German car, what the Hell was going on ?! He was about to go down, talk to the butler, Gaunt, see what this was all about, when the telephone rang. He stared at the black bakelite machine, willing it to cease with its noise, but it did not. In a fit of pique he snatched it up
"Devonshire ?" he said
"O'Brien", said a familiar Ulster accent, "Do not go out"

Edward Cavendish considered this for a moment, then asked
"Who is in the Alvis ?"
"Americans" came the reply, "Probably Intelligence; the Horsche holds Germans, if you need telling"
But the duke was not really listening to the answer, he was remembering. 1947 and the treaty of peace, the shock across all sections of society as Attlee had been forced to negotiate with the Nazis. The other parties had refused to oppose the motion in the Commons, a mass abdication of national interests, in the duke's opinion, but the law had passed with only recalcitrant Labour members voting against. To a historian it was a repeat of the surrender that had seen the formalisation of the Treaty of Versailles within Germany after the First World War

But people from the king's brother, the Duke of Gloucester to the released quasi-Fascist Oswald Mosley had said that it was a peace with honour, a view Attlee had been forced to endorse on national radio, however reluctant he may have been. For people like the duke, people who had fought with everything they had against the Nazis, even unto the death of their own children, it had been nothing short of a betrayal, and the years had not altered that. Old King George may be in retirement at Balmorral, Elizabeth II the new Queen of Great Britain, but to the duke all that told him was that the king was ashamed at the peace that had been negotiated on his watch and wanted nothing more of it.

But now this... An American resumption of diplomatic relations with Nazi Germany ! Surely he could not rest until it was undone, unravelled... But he was too good a strategist to doubt that this was why both the USA and the Greater German Reich had cars outside his London apartments... Was there really nothing he could do ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
4

General Vandegrift was relieved to be at last able to move from the Nazi platform. Guest of Honour, indeed ! He ought to have known. He had done nothing but stand there and watch and listen as first Goering, then others had eulogised Germany's Nazi past. He had cast a wary eye about him, seen the Ambassadors from Hungary, Roumania, Finland and Croatia as bored as he was, but they had had that cast to their eyes that told him that they were true believers, if not in National Socialism itself then in its victory.

After Goering had come interminable speeches by persons he could not even identify, Party, SS and abbreviated military they had been. Since 1948 none of the so-called Heroes had been permitted to speak, Guderian and Rommel's words having not been exactly in accord with National Socialist legend. 1949 had seen the official Heroes of the Reich ceremonies, no public words but how they had achieved this honour. This year, they were being kept very much in the background, and with his briefing, the Ambassador could not very well fail to notice this

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Very interesting. Do continue.

Hm, no mention of the Soviets yet... Maybe a German-Soviet peace before D-Day (well, before the nuclear bombing of the invasion fleet)?
I'm also looking forward to more info on how the Germans got a nuke.
 
Very interesting. Do continue.

Hm, no mention of the Soviets yet... Maybe a German-Soviet peace before D-Day (well, before the nuclear bombing of the invasion fleet)?
I'm also looking forward to more info on how the Germans got a nuke.

An ardently nationalist Heisenberg? An extremely lucky Heisenberg? A Atomic Research program that wasn't split between the military and the post office for several long years?
 
An ardently nationalist Heisenberg? An extremely lucky Heisenberg? A Atomic Research program that wasn't split between the military and the post office for several long years?

It would need a Heisenberg, or someone else, who realises that you only need a few pounds of Uranium-235,not tons of the stuff.
AND for him to be highly nationalistic / very lucky.
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
5 (this might answer some questions)

Heinrich Himmler relaxed in his special chair, leaning on his special table, reading sections from his special edition of Mein Kampf. He was in the house he shared with his mistress, Hedwig Potthast, up in the Obersalzberg, taking a well-earned breather after the succession of the Nuremburg ceremonies. Of course, whilst he was taking a break from the day-to-day grind of his position, he was not taking a break from its larger implications, hence the scrutiny of Hitler's book.

With a ruler and a pencil he carefully underlined a segment, and made a note about it on the top sheet of a notepad set alongside it. It was careful work, and it would be a long and demanding task, but only he could carry it out, only he had the required vision, the necessary understanding of the true meaning behind some of the late Fuhrer's words. It was fitting task, of course, and Himmler allowed himself a small smile as he went about it.

As the sun dipped behind the mountains, there came a knock at the door. That would be Claus, one of his SS Personal Guard, and the one he had given orders to be the only one to disturb him, whoever wanted him, and whatever they wanted. Well, he had achieved a lot in a few hours. Himmler carefully aligned the pencil on the notepad, and closed his special edition of the Nazi bible, replacing it on its wooden reading stand.
"Enter" he called out
It WAS Claus, of course. He slammed out an arm in salute and came to attention, whilst the Reichsfuhrer up-ended a palm in reply
"Reichsfuhrer !", the term 'Herr' was now forbidden in official circles, "Reichsminister Kammler has arrived."
"Thank you. Show him in", Himmler was the picture of refined courtesy, if it had not been for his special furnishings within the room

Hans Kammler was a man of many titles; a Doctor of Engineering, he was also an SS Oberstgruppenfuhrer, but his main title, and his proudest, was as Reichsminister for Research and Armaments. He had gathered the first to himself by the time of the nuclear bomb upon Berlin, and had been well-placed to take over duties of the second after Speer's aircraft, enroute for Flensburg, had been blown out of the sky by the explosion. Kammler, himself, had reckoned it only a matter of time anyway before he had ousted the Architect from any meaningful role in armaments, but his death, leaving the city for a meeting with procurement staff over iron shipments from the North, had brought it about all the sooner

Now, Kammler entered, saluted and waited. He was not at all phased by the Reichsfuhrer's sitting in a chair made from human bones, and covered with human skin, nor that the table he rested his hands on was similarly constructed, and the copy of Mein Kampf upon its stand, similarly covered. Even if he had not been in this room before, and he had, several times, it would not have phased him. In his late forties, and a near-contemporary of the Reichsfuhrer, the Reichsminister had had a close association with the concentration camps, and an intimate knowledge of what went on there. He had also been involved in numerous projects during the war years that had required human test subjects, and had seen the oft-times grisly results of these tests, not all of which went wrong.

Himler placed his hands palms together upon the grisly table-top and nodded whilst the door was closed from the outside by Claus.
"I have good news from Munich", Kammler said, getting straight to the point
There was no need for Himmler to ask where in Munich, or from whom; there was only one body there that they shared an interest in.
"It is possible that we will beat the Americans to this development ?" the Reichsfuhrer asked
"Professor Gerlach indicates that is a possibilty, though he wishes it to be known that he believes more strongly that both we and they will arrive at it at the same time"
"I see"

Professor Walther Gerlach was Head of the Reich Nuclear Research Council, and was the man who had replaced Heissenberg when the latter had been executed for treason. To his efforts the Reich owed the fact that after the first American nuclear bomb, upon Algiers, Germany had possessed a similar device which they had been able to drop upon Gibraltar. The Americans had then escalated things with the use of their second device on Berlin, and it had taken months before Gerlach's people had had the Reich's second ready for retaliation. They had always been playing catch-up with the Americans, and even today the United States owned a nuclear arsenal much larger than that of the Reich. But the new development promised to level the playing field, and start both sides off on an even race. Personally, Himmler thought that this possibility was the true reason behind President Taft's decision to reopen diplomatic relations. But until now they had not known for sure that Gerlach's team was truly capable of making the theoretical advance into a practical weapon.

Kammler waited a moment, letting the implications of what he had said sink in, then he moved on to the second item that he had come to Himmler's private domain to broach, one he did not think that the Reichsfuhrer would be anywhere near as happy to hear about,
"There is unfortunately a problem in the missile programme..." he began...


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Heinrich Himmler relaxed in his special chair, leaning on his special table, reading sections from his special edition of Mein Kampf. ... Himmler was the picture of refined courtesy, if it had not been for his special furnishings within the room
...
Now, Kammler entered, saluted and waited. He was not at all phased by the Reichsfuhrer's sitting in a chair made from human bones, and covered with human skin, nor that the table he rested his hands on was similarly constructed, and the copy of Mein Kampf upon its stand, similarly covered. ...

:eek::eek::eek:

OK,this looks... well, I know Himmler was an odd fellow, but still...
 
Actually, Himmler is the one in the Nazi higher-ups who I could see doing this. He was sicker than Adolf ever was, and not nearly as squeamish.


What about that famous moment when he was splattered with Brains and was sick? All those SS men did worse things on his command and he was pale at the sight of such an event?

Btw Grey Wolf Bravo on this piece of work. It’s very interesting to look into a post Hitler Nazi Germany.
 
This whole war sounds very Shattered World-like, but without the complete US dominance in nuclear weaponry.

Keep it up, Grey Wolf!
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Not to sound obtuse, but where, exactly, is the POD? Could you perhaps make a timeline of this Alternate? It's very interesting.

OK, sorry, I thought Schellenberg made it obvious but its hidden in this paragraph

It had been momentarily touch and go with the Armed Forces High Command. The shadow OKW had been created in early 1942 to 'advise' the Wehrmacht, Jans Juttner as Head of SS Main Leadership Office being promoted to control it. Already having had responsibility for the organisation and administrative leadership of the Waffen SS, Juttner had been ideally placed to take on this role. Instructed by Himmler to get the best deal for the Waffen SS, and to make sure the other services took their needs seriously in strategic planning, the shadow OKW had been accredited with liaisons from the army, the Luftwaffe, the Kriegsmarine and from Signals.

Its not the whole of the story, as I'm also relying on some changes coming from Goebbels' direction

I've put this in Discussion rather than Stories as I've decided to create the timeline through retrospectives, rather than write it just as a timeline, or write a story just as a going-forward thing

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
What about that famous moment when he was splattered with Brains and was sick? All those SS men did worse things on his command and he was pale at the sight of such an event?

Btw Grey Wolf Bravo on this piece of work. It’s very interesting to look into a post Hitler Nazi Germany.

Himmler is said by Bormann's son (and some other vaguer sources) to have had such furniture in his mistress' cottage - as such its hearsay, but possible.

Himmler IIRC was squeamish about actual killing and gore, but the bones and skin would seem detached sufficiently from this, and perhaps to his twisted mind the best use for a Jew in the new Reich

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Hashasheen

Banned
Himmler is said by Bormann's son (and some other vaguer sources) to have had such furniture in his mistress' cottage - as such its hearsay, but possible.

Himmler IIRC was squeamish about actual killing and gore, but the bones and skin would seem detached sufficiently from this, and perhaps to his twisted mind the best use for a Jew in the new Reich

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
stil though ithe thread is very good, a bit sickening but good
 
Himmler is said by Bormann's son (and some other vaguer sources) to have had such furniture in his mistress' cottage - as such its hearsay, but possible.

Himmler IIRC was squeamish about actual killing and gore, but the bones and skin would seem detached sufficiently from this, and perhaps to his twisted mind the best use for a Jew in the new Reich

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

He was also a vegetarian, right? And said the Germans shouldn't be cruel to the "human animals" of the East unless they had to, since doing so would be uncivilised. He thought the mass shootings were too inhumane, hence gas killing development.

It seems a little over the top. I can't say for sure what'd have happened, of course, but it doesn't quite fit with my image of the Reichsheini.
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
He was also a vegetarian, right? And said the Germans shouldn't be cruel to the "human animals" of the East unless they had to, since doing so would be uncivilised. He thought the mass shootings were too inhumane, hence gas killing development.

It seems a little over the top. I can't say for sure what'd have happened, of course, but it doesn't quite fit with my image of the Reichsheini.

We're not talking about Slavs, but about Nazi views on Jews.

Goebbels, for example, in his Spring 1942 diaries says the Nazis should have been more kind to the Russian peasants from the begining, talking great realpolitik, whilst at the same time talking happily about 'liquidation' of Jews
and numbers involved, how its always going to be necessary etc. I hardly think Himmler would have less fanatical views, especially in a situation where the Jews could not be seen as a last-ditch bargaining counter (which explained his
OTL late 1944 change of priorities)

And I didn't make it up - its hearsay, so you can take it or leave it, but Bormann Jnr (who was aged 14) is not the only source I found for it.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
We're not talking about Slavs, but about Nazi views on Jews.

Goebbels, for example, in his Spring 1942 diaries says the Nazis should have been more kind to the Russian peasants from the begining, talking great realpolitik, whilst at the same time talking happily about 'liquidation' of Jews
and numbers involved, how its always going to be necessary etc. I hardly think Himmler would have less fanatical views, especially in a situation where the Jews could not be seen as a last-ditch bargaining counter (which explained his
OTL late 1944 change of priorities)

And I didn't make it up - its hearsay, so you can take it or leave it, but Bormann Jnr (who was aged 14) is not the only source I found for it.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Well, it's your story, and I know Himmler's mind was pretty kriffed up, not the least in the occultish department, so he's the Nazi I can most easily figure would sit on a Throne of Bones. I just thought it still sounded a little implausible, that's all.
 
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