Acting President-Elect Huey Long

I read this a long time ago, and thought that this was one of the coolest timeline seeds I'd ever seen. So here it is in its entirety.

This entire post is the work of President Chester A. Arthur, the anti-Rutherford Hayes

Howdy. I've been reading T. Harry Williams' Huey Long.

Huey Long and Franklin Roosevelt liked each other fine at first. Neither of
them had had much contact with each other before the convention of 1932, Long thought of Roosevelt as an easy-going aristocract that he could control from the Senate; Roosevelt thought of Long as a progressive, liberal Southern governor. Long helped Roosevelt get the nomination in 1932 and campaigned vigorously for him.

After Long became a Senator and Roosevelt President, though, they were able to have more than casual contact and realize the mutual danger they were to each other, and a great antagonism began that would have been much more interesting if Long had lived past 1935.

Now, at the convention of 1932, there were three major contenders for the nomination: Franklin Roosevelt, Al Smith, and John Nance Garner. Roosevelt was in the lead and the front-runner, Smith was close but suffered from being crushed like an ant in 1928, and Garner was the splitter who eventually decided he'd like to be Vice-President more than see another convention like 1924.

Let's say Garner's out of the running, though. In OTL he lived to be 99, but he was in his 60s in 1932, it's not implausible to imagine him falling down a flight of stairs just before the convention. Suddenly Garner's delegates are up for grabs, with both Smith and Roosevelt warring over the freed-up delegates.

It's the bold young governor of Louisiana who holds both his state and many more delegates on top of that for Roosevelt, though, and Franklin Roosevelt gets the nomination after about as many ballots as per OTL. In gratitude to his champion, Roosevelt picks Long as his running mate in 1932.

During the course of the campaign, Roosevelt and Long meet extensively and get to know each other for what they really are. Neither is particularly happy with the arrangement they've worked out, but they can both work around it. Roosevelt plans to exclude Long from his administration as much as possible, Long plans to criticize Roosevelt until 1936, when he'll challenge him for the nomination.

Fate and circumstance intervene, though, when FDR is shot to death in Miami in March of 1933, and Huey Pierce Long Jr. becomes President of the United States not long afterwards.

Thoughts?

President Chester A. Arthur, the anti-Rutherford Hayes

C'mon, Huey Long as President? This is pretty cool . . .

Indeed, now what happens

With Burton K. Wheeler, the only man in the Senate who could stand Long, as Vice-President?

This should be an interesting presidency! One question though... why the title "Acting President-Elect" for the thread? If FDR died B-4 inaguration day, Long became President-elect and if after, he became President.

I was trying to hang a bit longer title on the thread, so as to show just how clever I am.

Post-Inauguration Day I don't really know what Huey Long would do. He was an extraordinarily intelligent man, and FDR's "New Deal" was totally undefined. Long would an incredible amount of political capital, with the Great Depression and FDR's bloody shirt, and I think that some massive government expansion (probably greater and more socialistic than FDR) will be in order.

Imagining Huey Long with control of the vast new government agencies that would be created and vast amounts of newly raised revenue that would be used to create them is quite frightening. I foresee a clash with the Supreme Court over some parts of his plan, and that is where Huey Long's tyrannical streak could come out. Even without that kind of public clash however, Long is going to use all those agencies and money to not just ease the suffering of the country, but also create a powerful political machine. And if his pattern is roughly the same in Washington as what he did in Louisiana a key part of the new political machine will be what a modern observer might call a "national security state" or what is more accurately a private police force. I would imagine that the FBI would probably be on par with what Long wants to do, although someone other that J. Edgar Hoover might need to be the director.

Overall I see Huey Long's New Deal as much more focused than FDR's. There is a relatively good argument to be made that FDR didn't really have a plan when he took office in '33 and just kind of winged it. I feel Long was probably personally more intelligent than FDR, and his political style was much more straighforward. FDR talked people into things, where Long ran people over. In this scenario the thing he runs over may be the American Constitution.

long/ as described as an american trotsky
intelligent but arrogent
unklike roosevelt, as soon as the honeymoon wears off were going to see some ugly battles in the senate.....i wander what ww2 would like,or the cold war

I think Long's policies are going to be too socialistic even for 1930's America. This coupled with his arrogance and from what I understand abbrasive personality will probably lead to him falling out of favor with a good chunk of the American people by 1936.

Come 1936 I'd wager that the Democratic party would split with Southern Democrats forming a splinter party and contesting those still loyal to Long. Meanwhile the GOP probably picks some one a good deal more liberal than Landon probably Idaho Senator William Borah as their candidate. Discontent with Long's policies + a split within the Democrats leads to Borah getting in and toning down Long's policies. But by then the damage is done Long's extreme interventionism will undoubtedly prolong the depression even though it takes the edge off better than FDR's new deal.

Without Roosevelt's cult of personality to force the US into WWII I'd wager that they'll stay neutral sitting on the sidelines and arming whomever they wish. Without WWII the Great Depression continues to drag on until the United States finally pulls it's head out of the sand and starts rearming rapidly to counter the threat from Soviet Russia in the late 1940's.

Fearless Leader said:

I think Long's policies are going to be too socialistic even for 1930's America. This coupled with his arrogance and from what I understand abbrasive personality will probably lead to him falling out of favor with a good chunk of the American people by 1936.

Come 1936 I'd wager that the Democratic party would split with Southern Democrats forming a splinter party and contesting those still loyal to Long. Meanwhile the GOP probably picks some one a good deal more liberal than Landon probably Idaho Senator William Borah as their candidate. Discontent with Long's policies + a split within the Democrats leads to Borah getting in and toning down Long's policies. But by then the damage is done Long's extreme interventionism will undoubtedly prolong the depression even though it takes the edge off better than FDR's new deal.

Without Roosevelt's cult of personality to force the US into WWII I'd wager that they'll stay neutral sitting on the sidelines and arming whomever they wish. Without WWII the Great Depression continues to drag on until the United States finally pulls it's head out of the sand and starts rearming rapidly to counter the threat from Soviet Russia in the late 1940's.

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I don't know under Long Lousiana went from a few hundred miles of paved roads, to having an indepth infastructure, telephone, and highways. He amde jobs to get the people working, and similar things that FDR did. I can easily see Long quickly angering the conservative elements of the Democrats but the people supporting him.

Also the man could work a political machine really well, and I have to think that he could at least wheel and deal himself into a good position for his term. What I wonder is how people would take to giving his family political positions. Long would be an interesting person no doubt, cause if he did not like you he would tell you. If he wanted your vote he was able to make some really good speeches and sound like a man of the people.

To me I'd love to see how Long would get around the Supreme Court. Former President Taft said he was one of the best legal minds that spoke before the court.

Long has been painted as everything from a Fascist to a Communist, but in reality I think he was a strongly progessive Democrat in the political climate of the time. In his early legal career he worked hard for small plantiffs to get workers compensation and better working conditions. He sued Standard Oil for the unfair way they conducted business. I'd say the public would support Long as eaisly as they did FDR.

Fenwick said:

I don't know under Long Lousiana went from a few hundred miles of paved roads, to having an indepth infastructure, telephone, and highways. He made jobs to get the people working, and similar things that FDR did. I can easily see Long quickly angering the conservative elements of the Democrats but the people supporting him.

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I agree. His experience in uplifting the rural poor in Louisiana would be good experience for uplifting the poverty stricken nation. He was quite fixated by roads and education, and I think that he would probably put both of those things at the top of his agenda.

Also the man could work a political machine really well, and I have to think that he could at least wheel and deal himself into a good position for his term. What I wonder is how people would take to giving his family political positions. Long would be an interesting person no doubt, cause if he did not like you he would tell you. If he wanted your vote he was able to make some really good speeches and sound like a man of the people.

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I think that with the massive new programs that he would get passed in the First 100 Days, he would be able to leverage the patronage from those new programs into very effective political alliances with urban political machines. In the South I think he would face opposition, but he as he proved OTL he could get people elected in other Southern states (the women he got elected to the Senate in Arkansas). With his combination of the carrot of the massive, patronage-rich government programs (if you don't support Huey Long, then you don't get Depression relief), and his own political genius as the stick (as in, oppose Huey Long and he will run his own candidate against you) he would be able to take over the Democratic Party.

To me I'd love to see how Long would get around the Supreme Court. Former President Taft said he was one of the best legal minds that spoke before the court.

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Andrew Jackson's response the Supreme Court's decision in favor of the Cherokee "They've made their decision, now let them enforce it" comes to mind. I actually think that with Long's probably more cogent economic policy the Supreme Court's rejection of any part of the policy may be a larger crisis then it was OTL. Perhaps Long's court-packing scheme is successful, the first definitive proof of Long's more tyrannical aims?

Long has been painted as everything from a Fascist to a Communist, but in reality I think he was a strongly progessive Democrat in the political climate of the time. In his early legal career he worked hard for small plantiffs to get workers compensation and better working conditions. He sued Standard Oil for the unfair way they conducted business. I'd say the public would support Long as easily as they did FDR.

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I think that that he went quite beyond progressive Democrat. He was a populist who was quite politically brutal and very tyrannical. The man also had very little respect for laws that he didn't like. EG,

-He was Governor and Senator at the same time for two years, and when the Lt. Governor attempted to swear himself in as Governor Long called out the National Guard and arrested him.

-He also ordered the National Guard into New Orleans during a struggle with that city's political machine. Their was street fighting between the NG and the NO Police Dept.

The thing that I question in Huey Long is his increasing paranoia. He would definitely be powerful and be loved, but his style and his strategies are going to create some powerful enemies. Long has enemies lists and used the police to follow political enemies. Being the president the stakes have been enormously raised. I could easily see Long creating a political police force and using it to harass his enemies. Under the conditions of the Great Depression the chance of Long being able to seize even larger powers is a definite possiblity.

Matthais Corvinus said:

(snipped) Huey Long and Franklin Roosevelt liked each other fine at first. Neither of
them had had much contact with each other before the convention of 1932, Long thought of Roosevelt as an easy-going aristocract that he could control from the Senate; Roosevelt thought of Long as a progressive, liberal Southern governor. Long helped Roosevelt get the nomination in 1932 and campaigned vigorously for him. (snipped more)

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FDR "liked" Long... I'd like to see primary sources on that, more correctly FDR used Long, and Long "thought" he was using FDR

All the documentation (including first hand accounts from FDR's people, and his various adversities) clearly show Long was the one person FDR was truly afraid of, for his own career but also for the country.

You need a major POD for FDR to, even in 32, to bring Long one heart beat away from the presidency.

WCDouglas said:

FDR "liked" Long... I'd like to see primary sources on that, more correctly FDR used Long, and Long "thought" he was using FDR

All the documentation (including first hand accounts from FDR's people, and his various adversities) clearly show Long was the one person FDR was truly afraid of, for his own career but also for the country.

You need a major POD for FDR to, even in 32, to bring Long one heart beat away from the presidency.

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The major POD was John Garner dying at the convention in '32. With a need to balance the ticket regionally, Long is picked. Is this possible? Sure. Is it plausible? I'm not so sure, but there it is. I know that this double POD (Garner dead then Roosevelt murdered) is the only way that I can get Long into the White House in '33, without other, much earlier changes (like Long winning his first gubernatorial contest).

I feel that the POD is rather weak, but the possibilities are so fascinating that it must be accepted. What do you think about my Long Administration's policies?

Matthais Corvinus said:

The major POD was John Garner dying at the convention in '32. With a need to balance the ticket regionally, Long is picked. Is this possible? Sure. Is it plausible? I'm not so sure, but there it is. I know that this double POD (Garner dead then Roosevelt murdered) is the only way that I can get Long into the White House in '33, without other, much earlier changes (like Long winning his first gubernatorial contest).

I feel that the POD is rather weak, but the possibilities are so fascinating that it must be accepted. What do you think about my Long Administration's policies?

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Well, Black shirts and Brown shirts have been taken... so he'll have find another catchy title for his thugs.

Policy wise, just like his governorship, Bread and circuses. Lots of "public" projects, for the good of the common man and the profit of him and his buddies.

Suspect he'd "print" money, I'll have to do some looking but I seem to remember from my college class on the 1930s that Long actually believed you could "make" money.

Assuming he wins in 1936 (and I wouldn't expect it to be a clean election even by old Soviet standards), no more free elections until his death or a forcefull measures.

WCDouglas said:

Well, Black shirts and Brown shirts have been taken... so he'll have find another catchy title for his thugs.

Policy wise, just like his governorship, Bread and circuses. Lots of "public" projects, for the good of the common man and the profit of him and his buddies.

Suspect he'd "print" money, I'll have to do some looking but I seem to remember from my college class on the 1930s that Long actually believed you could "make" money.

Assuming he wins in 1936 (and I wouldn't expect it to be a clean election even by old Soviet standards), no more free elections until his death or a forcefull measures.

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This post is, I feel, a good example of the generally wrong-headed view that people had and have of Huey Long. Long was corrupt, but then again, so were a lot of people in government at the same time as him. The big city mayors in the north did the same kind of things. The fact that he allowed political supporters to profit from public works that genuinely helped the public and improved life for the vast majority is sad, but understandable.

For the title of his political police he could use one that have become quite popular in second half of the 20th Century, Federal Bureau of Investigation.

His governorship was a massive success for the state of Louisiana. He improved roads, public education (on all levels, from providing free textbooks to school children to making LSU one of the leading public universities in the country) and made government work for the people.

On the question of elections. The thing that made Huey Long so scary to FDR was not that he was a proto-Fascist, it was that he was a true democrat. Huey Long did things for the people of Louisiana that no politician had ever attempted, and they loved him for it. He was scary because he had become the virtual dictator of his state through the ballot box, relatively fair and square. The specter that he presented was that he would be so popular, and so radical, that he would sweep away everything in his path with public approval. Huey Long presented the threat of a man who could democratically achieve near-absolute power. He would probably be able to largely reshape the Democratic Party in his own image, using the carrots and sticks I earlier mentioned. That being said, I think that had things started to turn against him, it would have been ugly, but I don't think that tide would have turned until sometime in the late 40's. He may just bow out gracefully, having so impacted the political system that his coalition remains politically in charge for decades (as happened with FDR, whose "New Deal" Coalition hung together until it was finally smashed in the '94 Republican Revolution).

On the question of money, I think that what you're speaking about is inflation. Democratic Party populists often think inflation is a good idea, because it will allow people to pay off debts for less money. By printing more money, you increase inflation (remember the Ruhr Crisis in 1923 with Germany? That's an extreme example). Long admired William Jennings Bryant, whose national political career was launched by the idea of inflation. His "Cross of Gold" speech in 1896 was in favor of using silver to induce inflation, and won him the Democratic nomination.