Napoleon in America...

citybug

I always wondered what would have happened if Napoleon managed to evade the HMS Bellerophon after departing from Rochefort in 1815 and arrived in the United States.

Since I am a big Napoleon addict, I always wished the Treaty of Ghent was never signed in December 1814 and the war continued on. The United States would have employed Napoleon to marshal forces to attack Canada and rebuild a New France.

Anyone else have other ideas concerning the escape of Napoleon?
 

numberone

citybug uses a time machine to smuggle Napy into America...

I think he would profess at VMI, and create many butterflies.

VMI is a college fyi.
 

Lord Grattan

citybug said:
I always wondered what would have happened if Napoleon managed to evade the HMS Bellerophon after departing from Rochefort in 1815 and arrived in the United States.

Since I am a big Napoleon addict, I always wished the Treaty of Ghent was never signed in December 1814 and the war continued on. The United States would have employed Napoleon to marshal forces to attack Canada and rebuild a New France.

Anyone else have other ideas concerning the escape of Napoleon?
Click to expand...

Search the threads, as there are several that discuss possible scenarios as well as the plausability of it really happening.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
The most interesting scenarios I can think of involve him meeting Andrew Jackson and/or Sam Houston

It's esp intriguing as to what he might have done with Texas and/or Mexico, however, Mexico had been revolting against him, had they not?

Assuming he doesn't die of stomach cancer in 1821
 

Nytram01

Why do these scenarios alway involve him going to the USA? I know that there is that conspiracy theory about Thomas Cochrane smuggling him out of Saint Helena and taking him to South America to build an empire from there but appart from that Napoleon in the Americas scenarios always seem to see him end up in the USA? Why doesn't Napoleon ever go to Mexico or something?
 

citybug

Nytram01 said:
Why do these scenarios alway involve him going to the USA? I know that there is that conspiracy theory about Thomas Cochrane smuggling him out of Saint Helena and taking him to South America to build an empire from there but appart from that Napoleon in the Americas scenarios always seem to see him end up in the USA? Why doesn't Napoleon ever go to Mexico or something?
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I think that there is a real thought about such an iconic figure going on to do more in his lifetime. Leaders like Napoleon rarely come around in history. I cannot recall in my view a leader like him since he had been the heart of great conquest and liberalism. And, it seems kinda fitting for Napoleon to end up in America as opposed to St. Helena. But, that is all my opinion; because, I feel as though he had got a bum rap.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
Nytram01 said:
Why do these scenarios alway involve him going to the USA? I know that there is that conspiracy theory about Thomas Cochrane smuggling him out of Saint Helena and taking him to South America to build an empire from there but appart from that Napoleon in the Americas scenarios always seem to see him end up in the USA? Why doesn't Napoleon ever go to Mexico or something?
Click to expand...

Wasn't it Napoleon's brother, Joseph Bonaparte, who the South Americans and Mexicans were revolting against, since Napoleon made him King of Spain in 1808 and this started the resistance juntas?
 

Jason

I think you might be fogetting that Napoleon wasn't just the enamy of Great Britain but also Russia, Spain, Portugal, etc. If he ends up in the USA and starts supporting them I am not sure they are simply going to go "well, he's in the USA", shrug their shoulders and get on with life. I suspect they are going to want to see him removed form any sort of power,e sp thos with colonial outposts in the Americas, if nothing else they will start to wonder how long it will be before he makes a move against those.

Using Napoleon in an active way risks turning the USA into the enemy of the world powers of the day; at the very least it could find itself friendless, without trade, etc.
 

citybug

Jason said:
I think you might be fogetting that Napoleon wasn't just the enamy of Great Britain but also Russia, Spain, Portugal, etc. If he ends up in the USA and starts supporting them I am not sure they are simply going to go "well, he's in the USA", shrug their shoulders and get on with life. I suspect they are going to want to see him removed form any sort of power,e sp thos with colonial outposts in the Americas, if nothing else they will start to wonder how long it will be before he makes a move against those.

Using Napoleon in an active way risks turning the USA into the enemy of the world powers of the day; at the very least it could find itself friendless, without trade, etc.
Click to expand...

Granted, that is a viable threat... But who would know Napoleon is in America? The means of communication would be hard to deliver; and, granted, I believe the Americans would keep him a secret above all else. If his ship eluded the British after leaving Rochefort, I don't see how the rest of the world will know his whereabouts.

And, if in America, I see the secret eventually getting out roughly years after his arrival. If he does not die in 1821, I just imagine what he would do. There is the idea he might reform the American Army into something more. Turn militias into standing armies. But there are the extreme dreams of invading Canada for the sake of returning the French to the "French." And, that would pose a HUGE crisis for the USA. But as with the wars in North America, I don't see how the Great Powers would go about fighting a war against the USA. The distance is troubling. Sure, Spanish Mexico would impede on the Louisiana Purchase and there would be trouble brewing in Florida. But it is unlike what they encountered in 1812. Only the British would have a real good shot of getting troops over to the Americas, but the Spanish, Portuguese, and Russians would have a tough time just to get a few regiments over.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
Jason said:
I think you might be fogetting that Napoleon wasn't just the enamy of Great Britain but also Russia, Spain, Portugal, etc. If he ends up in the USA and starts supporting them I am not sure they are simply going to go "well, he's in the USA", shrug their shoulders and get on with life. I suspect they are going to want to see him removed form any sort of power,e sp thos with colonial outposts in the Americas, if nothing else they will start to wonder how long it will be before he makes a move against those.

Using Napoleon in an active way risks turning the USA into the enemy of the world powers of the day; at the very least it could find itself friendless, without trade, etc.
Click to expand...

There'd also prolly be a very, very substantial reward for his head.
 

Jason

I can't see them keeping his existence secret-lets be honest, everyone is going to be after him, just because he manages to avoid one warship doesn't mean the world will go 'lets forget about him' and as NapoleonXIV said there will be a large reward out for him and/or info.

To be honest, we are talking about a man who has taken on all the powers and inflicted years of war on Europe; he isn't exactly popular. People will not rest until they know his fate and when they do, if a nation is hosting him, that nation will then come under pressure to hand him over-or else. Imagine the USA suddenly finding all the powers say 'no trade until you had him over'. As to war, well yes, it won't be easy but to put an end to him, remove the threat of him ever returning to France again, to inflict another war on Europe then I think you'd find nations willing to do it.

citybug said:
Granted, that is a viable threat... But who would know Napoleon is in America? The means of communication would be hard to deliver; and, granted, I believe the Americans would keep him a secret above all else. If his ship eluded the British after leaving Rochefort, I don't see how the rest of the world will know his whereabouts.

And, if in America, I see the secret eventually getting out roughly years after his arrival. If he does not die in 1821, I just imagine what he would do. There is the idea he might reform the American Army into something more. Turn militias into standing armies. But there are the extreme dreams of invading Canada for the sake of returning the French to the "French." And, that would pose a HUGE crisis for the USA. But as with the wars in North America, I don't see how the Great Powers would go about fighting a war against the USA. The distance is troubling. Sure, Spanish Mexico would impede on the Louisiana Purchase and there would be trouble brewing in Florida. But it is unlike what they encountered in 1812. Only the British would have a real good shot of getting troops over to the Americas, but the Spanish, Portuguese, and Russians would have a tough time just to get a few regiments over.
Click to expand...
 

Qazaq2007

IOTL, there was a plan to bring Napoleon to the US, but obviously it didn't come to pass. The plan was carried forth to a point that a house was built here in New Orleans for Napoleon, in the French Quarter, but obviously he never lived there. I actually live only a few blocks from the Napoleon House as it is called, which is being operated as a restaurant and bar. As for Nappy causing wars in Europe, it isn't exactly accurate, it was the other European powers ganging up together in coalitions, and starting wars against Napoleon, because Nappy was trying to dismantle the old monarchical order.
 

dreadnought jenkins

Qazaq2007 said:
IOTL, there was a plan to bring Napoleon to the US, but obviously it didn't come to pass. The plan was carried forth to a point that a house was built here in New Orleans for Napoleon, in the French Quarter, but obviously he never lived there. I actually live only a few blocks from the Napoleon House as it is called, which is being operated as a restaurant and bar. As for Nappy causing wars in Europe, it isn't exactly accurate, it was the other European powers ganging up together in coalitions, and starting wars against Napoleon, because Nappy was trying to dismantle the old monarchical order.
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Which obviously wouldn't provoke the autocrats and monarchs in every surrounding country. He might not have been the one declaring war, but he certainly caused them by his actions
 

Jason

Qazaq2007 said:
IOTL, there was a plan to bring Napoleon to the US, but obviously it didn't come to pass. The plan was carried forth to a point that a house was built here in New Orleans for Napoleon, in the French Quarter, but obviously he never lived there. I actually live only a few blocks from the Napoleon House as it is called, which is being operated as a restaurant and bar. As for Nappy causing wars in Europe, it isn't exactly accurate, it was the other European powers ganging up together in coalitions, and starting wars against Napoleon, because Nappy was trying to dismantle the old monarchical order.
Click to expand...

Hmm, not sure we have the same view of history i'm afraid. Think the Spanish and Russians might be tempted to view Nappy as the agressor.

I get you are an admirer of the old man but just bear in mind, at the time, to a lot of people he was the enemy, a monster who through carrying on the conflicts started during the French Revolution. He wasn't some nice liberal guy promoting peace, friendship and freedom for all who teenage-wannabe-radicals wore on their T-shirts, he was more viewed like a certain man currently hiding in caves and wanted by the USA gov.
 
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