King Hereafter--Macbeth Defeats Malcolm

[MerryPrankster]

WI Macbeth, King of Scotland, had defeated Malcolm Canmore, son of the king that Macbeth (and Banquo too) had deposed some years before, in 1057?

Macbeth was actually a good king--he reformed the laws and Scotland prospered. The country was so stable that he could leave for a multi-month pilgrimage to Rome. It was Malcolm, backed by the English King Edgar the Confessor, that did him in.

Here's some helpful info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbeth_of_Scotland

How might the longer survival of the House of Alpin (as opposed to Malcolm's House of Dunkeld) affect Scottish history?

[DMA]

Well that screws Shakespeare good & proper...

[MerryPrankster]

I've just finished Dorothy Dunnett's historical novel "King Hereafter" and it gave me an idea for a POD, in 1057 just before the final Malcolm-Macbeth clash.

In the novel, Macbeth has just been defeated by combined forces of Earl Siward of Northumbria and Scottish dissidents (largely from Fife) under Malcolm. However, Siward pulls out and leaves Malcolm in possession of southern Scotland; thing is, Macbeth lacks the manpower (most of Scotland's young men died in the war with Siward) to drive him out.

He ends up making a deal with William of Normandy (THAT William). Macbeth would pay William money and William would furnish an army of Norman mercenaries to help clear Malcolm's men out.

When the Northumbrians hear of this, they reinforce Malcolm's army. Thing is, William can't send the soldiers b/c he has been attacked by Anjou and the King of France. Macbeth challenges Malcolm to single combat to save men's lives, and loses.

WI the King of France and the Duke of Anjou decided not to attack William just then and Macbeth's Norman-reinforced army sweeps Malcolm and his army out, inflicting a nasty defeat on the Northumbrians marching to reinforce. We're left with Macbeth atop a shaky throne, more Normans settled in Scotland (much of Scotland was depopulated during the wars), and some really nasty Norman-Northumbrian emnity.

I do not know how historically accurate the novel is (its core thesis is that Macbeth was the baptismal name of Thorfinn, the Viking lord of Orkney, and that's disputed), but the issue of the POD itself sounds credible.

Now what?

[Kurt_Steiner]

Would the defeated nobles rise again? Would any foregin power help them?

[MerryPrankster]

Well, I think Malcolm will be dead, so any surviving rebel noblemen would need a new figurehead. Donald (Donalbain of the play) is still around.

In the book, Norway was launching an invasion of Orkney just before the final battle began. Norway could conceivably aid anti-Macbeth elements in Scotland (the book seemed to indicate there weren't all that many--most of the troops were Northumbrian) in order to try to reclaim Orkney and other territories they had once held. Northumbria could be dangerous as well.

I'm wondering about whether this series of events would butterfly away the Norman Conquest or not.

[Kurt_Steiner]

Would the AngloSaxon England try to conquer Scotland? Northumbria would be quite restless with Tostig... Difficult, perhaps.