Romans in Cuba

What if some Romans blown off course, find themselves in Cuba. They proceed to set up a civilization that colonizes most of the carribean, and florida maybe. Now what happens when the Spanish arrive and find some remnant of this state.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
It would depend on how Roman they had remained over the centuries. If they were still walking around with big square shields and gladii then everybody would go whoa, but if they were just another tribe with some legends about ancestors who had strange weapons and armor then the Spaniards would just kill them along with the rest.

Which is what would still probably happen. The Spaniards had guns by this time.
 
Looking at the strange things that have happened in history, there most likely were Greek/Roman/Carthagenian ships that were blown off course into the far Atlantic. Most would have just sunk and that was that, but even if one or a few ships did make it to a Carribbean island there would be no change.

Either they would have been killed off by the natives, or just assimilated into their culture (not enough people to make a difference).
 
Well, could we go with a potential large enough person pool so that this "Colony" does still have big square shields, aquaducts, and fights in legionar style formatiobns.
 
I think the problem is going to be enough of a mix in this shipload of lost Romans so that they can establish a wide-ranged enough Roman-style society to make an impact.

A shipload of legionnaries isn't going to have the skills to set up baths, have the mining skills to get the ore to make weapons and tools, etc.
 
I think the problem is going to be enough of a mix in this shipload of lost Romans so that they can establish a wide-ranged enough Roman-style society to make an impact.

A shipload of legionnaries isn't going to have the skills to set up baths, have the mining skills to get the ore to make weapons and tools, etc.

I'm not saying that a bunch of Legionaires could found a new civilization, but Roman soldiers were also quite amazing engineers. If I remember correctly, quite a bit of Rome's infrastructure was but by its soldiers. I don't think having a few masons, blacksmiths, and men with at least rudimentry engineering skill is all that much of a reach, especially if said unit has a few 20 or 30 year veterans, and a few well learned commanders.

Just my opinion. The raw materials would be difficult to locate, and gather, but I think they could accomplish quite a bit, once this hurdle is crossed. Even if they could create Bronze it would be quite interesting.
 

MrP

Banned
As mentioned, there's a TL somewhere about in which Nero dispatches Seneca and a bunch of other fellas who annoyed him to the far west. That'll get you a spread of specialisations.
 
Well it really depends on what they find, a good stat will be a roman army intended to conquer and than settle quite a big targhet, let's say Britain.
Let's suppose the invasion force in 43, led by Aulus Plautius, that we know was delayed by a mutiny of the troops, instead of being eventually persuaded by an imperial freedman to overcome their fear of crossing the Ocean and campaigning beyond the limits of the known world, where Lead in rebellion by that same charismatic man , to the very edge of the world, and effectively landed in Cuba...



The Conquistadores will likeley to find a pletora of successor states in the Caraibes, PAGAN romans...
This will lead to some intresting twists in the area as it eliminates some great waekneses the new world had in fighting of the Conquerors:

1) no resistence to european diseases
2) no centralized states in reciprocal competition
3) no domesticable animals except for dogs (assuming roman ones survied the trip)
4) no "high return" cereals except for mais, no large urban populations
5) no metallurgy (given the nature of the romans involved this is the tech less likely to disappear early)
6) no navy
 
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The legionaires were largely used as the labour force, the average one didn't have the skills to, for example, design and build a bath house.

To be honest, I suspect they would go native very quickly, after all, they need to eat and without crops to grow (and skilled farmers to do the growing), unless they plan to live by rape and pillage, a quick intergration with the locals is required.

I'm not saying that a bunch of Legionaires could found a new civilization, but Roman soldiers were also quite amazing engineers. If I remember correctly, quite a bit of Rome's infrastructure was but by its soldiers. I don't think having a few masons, blacksmiths, and men with at least rudimentry engineering skill is all that much of a reach, especially if said unit has a few 20 or 30 year veterans, and a few well learned commanders.

Just my opinion. The raw materials would be difficult to locate, and gather, but I think they could accomplish quite a bit, once this hurdle is crossed. Even if they could create Bronze it would be quite interesting.
 
If anyone remembres the - Bronze Age New World - The Spanish still managed to take over.

I think it would be the same here. Just a few more Conquistadors, killed before it happens.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
If the Romans have kept up discipline for some 1500 years then the Spaniards are going to be facing....Rome...It won't be just Cuba, it will be probably most of North Am by this time.

We have a few hundred, maybe 1000, Spaniards, armored cavalry with wheel or match lock muskets vs at least 100,000 of the most effective infantry the ancient world ever fielded, with archer/slinger auxiliaries.
 
and whos to say the roman's wouldn't also have advanced (maybe by luck) in tech...

Unlikley, but still it depends on how romans evolved during insulation, may be they kept the secret of Greek Fire and their triremes will still be a good match for spanish galleons.
 
A couple of thoughts....

What would be required to make a self-sustaining "Roman" Empire in the Caribbean.

1. Approximately 1000 people, of a roughly even male-female ratio.
2. Skilled craftsmen
3. Skilled Warriors
4. An Already set leadership

Here's an interesting POD, and It'll have repercussions down the road.

39 A.D.

The Disciples of Christ make a slightly larger initial impact in Roman society than IOTL. The "normal" course of history is preserved in Europe, Australia, Asia & Africa when the Roman Government, eager to avoid any scandal or threat to their power, quietly sends these three thousand or so "Christians" off into exile. Caligula, wracked with fever, brushes it off to lower level bureaucrats, telling them to just get rid of them quietly.
Timothy, a local Christian leader from Lystra, is selected to lead them. Before he is captured, Timothy is able to get his son to freedom. This young man takes his father's name and eventually takes his place in OTL History.

40 A.D.

The Christians land in OTL Cuba. They decide to call it Israel and found the town of Bethlehem.


Someone want to take this?

 
Well A.D. 39 is really too early to have 1000 christian roman citizens, and a pagan, classic society will be much more intresting to find in the new world!

if we don't mind the genes to survive but only the memes we shall trust on a more likley only male expedition that could propagate the way romans did with the sabines centuries before....
 
I set 39 as the point with a POD of "More Christians". The "solution" was to ship them away. Thus European history continues relatively unchanged.
 
In My Hesperia TL, I had my Romans colonizing West Africa, but losing Contact when the Empire fell in the 5th Century
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=1723

If Whe come up with a Reason for a Small Roman Colony in Cuba, [:confused: Pineapples?] And then lost.
When Columbus comes along there are vague tales, of Lost Romans, considered the same as Atlantis, or Thule.
Then His ships are stopped by Galleys, as he approaches the Roman Isles.
 
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