Earlier American Canals

I'm taking my revolutionary war scenario in a different direction.
POD 1. King George III dies, the Heir takes over, and for some reason the successor Prime Minister doesn't want to fight the war in the Americas. They do want to avoid war with France, Spain, and the Netherlands. Peace is signed.
POD 2. Francis Marion dies, and the south stays Tory. Marion had a lot to do with the British overextending themselves and not holding the interior south. It was pretty close in OTL. The southern coastal cities were not nearly as revolutionary as the northern coastal cities.
POD 3. Arnold's attack on Quebec succeeds. No smallpox epidemic decimates the army because someone decides to vaccinate, or whatever. Success reinforces itself with the Quebecois deciding that their guaranteed cultural independence is worth it. Some Cajuns return.

Tory's move south, Loyalists move north, and the trend self reinforces. Basically everyone south of the line is going to be Tory, or quiet about it. Ditto to the north. I'm going to leave the Delmarva peninsula in the north because it shields the exit from Philadelphia harbor so the US has a winter port, and because they were Patriot in OTL. I'm going to leave Newfoundland as Tory because the British want a fishing port near the cod. The Ohio watershed is the dividing line between the US and the British South. The Missouri between the Spanish and the US

There is no general European war. Spain does not sell Louisiana to France, and on to America, nor does France suffer a revolution or lose Haiti. That Haitian plantation lady doesn't persuade Whitney to build the cotton gin, and King Tobacco is not displaced by King Cotton. Slavery sputters on in the south without the increased valuation of the slaves caused by cotton plantation.

Britain upholds it's treaty with the Indians. They continue to prohibit the colonisation of the transappalachian areas. Britain continues to import indentured servants and criminals into the south. This also devalues slaves when there is no place to spread. The British have the problem with what to do with the freed slaves from the revolution and send them to Florida to establish a colony there and nail it down. America does encroach on Indian territory and the displaced Indians tend to drift down into the transappalachian south.

With the more Hamiltonian and less Jeffersonian attitudes toward federal government, the public improvements part of the national budget is going to be fairly large. So is the mineral exploration budget, and the willingness to purchase territories to expand into, and the naval budget, and the naval exploration budget. So are tariffs to raise revenues and encourage manufactures.
They will lauch Lewis and Clark at the same time as Mackenzie is exploring towards the Pacific. They will send naval explorers out to find more islands for guano and whatever.
They will find the salt beds in New York, the copper ores in Michigan, the iron ores in Minnesota, and maybe the lead in Missouri and Minnesota in the twenty years between 1780 and 1800. I don't think the nickel copper PGM ores of Sudbury are going to be found unless they find that gold field up their ahead of schedule, too.
The central transportation location for the capital city is going to be on the Hudson/Champlain correidor. Their primary export focus is going to be grains for imported manufactures. Building the canal system is a natural.
They are also going to buy the Louisiana territory from the bankrupt European nations that claim it, which means Spain in this ATL.

Erie first and the most expensive, in 1800 to 1805 instead of 1817 to 1825. It's started earlier, and finished earlier. It has to wait till 1800 because in 1780, the population to support the work crews, hire the horses to haul dirt and clay, etc, just isn't there. The Mohawk valley between the Hudson and the Great Lakes was pretty much burned out in the war in OTL, and even if it isn't worked over as badly this time, the population just isn't big enough.
Oswego next, 1805 to 1806. This connects the upper St. Laurence and Lake Ontario to the Erie canal. It's a salt and manufactures canal.
Welland next, in 1806 to 1807. This connects the upper Great Lakes to the upper St. Laurence and Lake Ontario. Manufactures for grains, again. The upper Canadians are going to be insisting on this for political reasons.
Champlain next, 1807 to 1808. This is the one that connects the lower St. Laurence near Montreal to the Hudson. It's primarily a transportation of manufactures and rock, rather than grains. Grains can go to New York or Quebec for shipment. Quebec wants it.
Ohio next, and the next most expensive, 1808 to 1813. This connects the Ohio river to Lake Erie. Again, grains, coal, and oil for manufactures, and lead for construction. The Ohio before steam boats was difficult to get to. You had to pole up the river on a boat, or walk the Natchez trace, like my great, great, great, grandfather did. Floating a raft to New Orleans was the easy part. With the canal there, the great lakes can feed into the Mississippi and float downstream to New Orleans and the market for the Caribbean sugar islands.
Soo last, 1812 to 1813. I'm not sure that this is late enough. The population has only had seven years to get all the way out here, even with the copper rush for Michigan (which I have starting earlier on this ATL). This connects Lake Superior to the middle great lakes. Manufactures, minerals (iron ore) and grains, again.

You will not that the canals are built one after another. This is because it's a line item in the budget, and to enable the work crews to keep together. The surveyours go out first to find out where the canal will be, then the farmers move in and ramp up production of food and fodder, then the construction crews move in, and then everyone moves on while the grains goes to the cities of the coast, and to Europe.
Having the 'canalhead' available is necessary for the long canals, to avoid the price of hauling extra food too far. That's why the Erie and Ohio canals take so long. The 20 to 70 mile canals can be 'fed' from both ends without too much expense to wagon crews, but not a 400 mile canal. It's not the food so much as the fodder. Fodder is not economical to ship by wagon.

When the Eire Canal was completed the price of grain fell 85% in several weeks. This is going to happen sooner in this ATL than in OTL. 1805 instead of 1825. What affect does this have on the price of grains in Europe? What affect does this have on the willingness of Europeans to immigrate to America to the Ohio and Minnesota farmlands now opened? What affect does cheap sugar beets have on the price of sugar? Just because Napoleon isn't subsidizing sugar beets doesn't mean that Hamilton isn't.

I think that the cotton gin, or somthing similar, would be invented no matter what. Its a simply invention that either Whitney invents or someone else in the south would once Tobacco crop starts to fail because of depleted soil. Also does Whitney invent interchangable parts? Without this you lose the basis of mass production until someone else invents later. The South is also going to be in big economic trouble as Tobacco is hell on soil and will quickly leach away whats left of the nutrients in another decade. I fear that Rail Roads will also have a rough time in the north, as the canal supporters are going to be pretty powerful and sure don't like competition (OTL RR's were banned from carrying freight during the 1820's and 1830's in NY state). Manufacturing in the north is also going to be some what retarded as they no longer have cheap cotton to put in textile mills. I'm also skeptical that the English are going to be able to keep settlers out of the appalachian mt. area. Most likely they will go on their own, with or without English approval, as they did in OTL without US support. You also say that Haiti doesn't go through a revolution, I would think that they would still revolt as their conditions and treatment was about 100 times worse then the average southern slave. And what motivation does the US government have for sending out a Lewis and Clarke like expedition out? All they would do is explore another nations territory. Finally you say that freed slaves are sent to make a colony in Florida, but at this time Florida is a possession of Spain and any English colony their will certain cause a war between the two nations.

Florida was British in 1776, both colonies of East and West Florida. It was not Spanish (again) until 1783.
http://www.floridahistory.org/floridians/british.htm
The cotton gin was not invented previously in the more than three thousand years of cotton cultivation. It would have been invented at some time, of course. I just assume that except for that chance meeting, it would have been invented later. One percent later, in 1823 instead of 1793.

even if it was invented later the South is one of the best cotton cultivation areas in the world and slavery would certainly see a resurgences. Also how is the South going to cope with the collapse Tabbaco once the soil loses its nutrients?

The south will sell off or free their slaves as they become economically useless. Some cotton land will be used for cotton as demand increases. It will just not be so profitable, so slaves will be freed easier because it is easier to free a hundred dollar slave than a thousand dollar slave. The land will be crop rotated once crop rotation is discovered, or popularised as in OTL. Tobacco will be grown by the Indians in Tennessee, southern Kentucky, and nothern Alabama, as in OTL. The price of Tobacco may go up.

One of the Reasons that comprimise was able to be reached in 1789, was that both side thought that Slavery would die out as the Tobacco fields were depleted. delay the cotton gin by several years and there would be a much greater number of free blacks in the south.

Must of the Southern States tried to match the Norths Canal Building Spree. The resulting bankrupcty of the Southern States. Delayed the building of Railroads till the 1850's. a earlier Canal Spree, would allow the south to build RRs at the same time as the north. leading to much different settlement & development patterns.

If the US has a more Hamiltonian financial approach towards government investment in infrastructure and trade support, what affects will this have internationally?
Britain will not tolerate a large American navy. They will follow their policy of matching any conceivable threat. Since France is too bankrupt to build a navy, Portugal is too small, technologically backward, and bankrupt, the Netherlands is too small and timber poor, Russia is geographically isolated and technologically backward, Ottoman Turkey is too timber poor, technologically backward, and corrupt, Denmark/Norway and Sweden are too small, Austria is too landlocked, India is broken up into many feuding states, Japan is isolationist, and China is falling apart, what threat do they have to worry about?
As long as they have good relations with America, nothing.
So what does America do? With Hamilton running the Treasury, Paine appointing Supreme Court Justices, Jefferson running the Library of Congress, the national conservatory, and the Patent Office, Washington watching the southern border with an army, Arnold watching the Capital with another army, Burr running New York City, Madison running the Justice department, Adams running the State Department, and Franklin running the University, all is pretty much OK.
We send out some exploration expeditions. Let Jefferson plan those. We have Franklin setting up the experimental departments at the national university at what is now RPI, the capital. What do we get for our money?
Canals, steam engines, electricity, naturalisation of every plant we can find, consuls all over Europe and the world, and what else?
Australia, the Northwest Passage, Hawaii, New Zealand, Antarctica, the West Coast, the territory we will have bought from Spain, and what else?

I'm going to make the transappalachia nonTory. The Union rebels in the backcountry decide to move over the mountains rather than swear an oath to an English King. They are mostly poor people because the rich people are not about to leave their farms. Since they are poor, they don't have many slaves and they don't like slaves competing with them for jobs, so they forbid importation of slaves (and probably free blacks, too).
This has three effects.
1. It's easier for the slaves to escape to freedom from British territory. Just follow the sunset.
2. The US will go all the way to Louisiana (Spanish, in this timeline), which makes it more attractive for the US to buy the port and the rest of the Louisiana territory. I assume that the US will take it if the Spanish try to tax their exports.
3. The slave proportion of the population of the southern states will go up, and up, and up, and someday...

1780 to 1800 is consolidation. The US recovers from the war, and so do the LS (Loyalist States). Some LS immigration into the parts of transappalachia that drain to the gulf. The parts that drain to the Mississippi are part of states of Cumberland and Ohio and they also get immigration pretty much as in OTL.
**********************************************************
1800 to 1820 is the canal building era. The US also buys Louisiana from the Spanish. The Lewis and Clark and Mackenzie eras of exploration. The population shift to the west is faster because the canals make it cheaper and provide a market for the produce. The copper of the Michigan peninsula comes to market. They find but do not exploit the Sudbury deposits because they don't have flotation technolgy. Just lots of explorers looking for oxide deposits.
**********************************************************
1820 to 1840 is the railroad boom. Lots of construction. Standardisation of guages. Electricity is not merely discovered on schedule, it is worked over by the US, with it's Paine/Hamilton/Jefferson oriented university system. Paine supported merit scholarships, Jefferson loved libraries, and Hamilton liked government support of necessary manufactures. The combination makes the US look a lot like Japan after 1853. Now the sulfide deposits are developed after the electrolytic refining system is discovered.
**********************************************************
1840 to 1860 is the electricity boom. Trams, mostly. Some factory electrification, but not much. Electric lighting destroys the whale oil industry. Artificial fertilisers are only CaCN2 based for ammonia, and arc for nitrates because they don't really understand catalysts yet. The arc nitrate plants are subsidized because the US doesn't like having it's gunpowder supply controlled by Britain. Phosphate rock is also upgraded by arc nitrates. Potash deposits are unknown as yet except for the German ones.
The US buys California and Texas from Mexico as it finally revolts against Spain. It's too developed and fed up with the Madrid government to stay dependent. The US is happy to sell them guns and gun powder in return for land. Spain would fight a war with the US if they thought they had a chance, but not with all Latin America fighting on the US side.
**********************************************************
1860 to 1880. What we would think of as modern science. The financial support was already there, but science as a profession and a social network takes time to develop. The transcontinental railroad is soon hauling copper and potash and gold and silver to the eastern US.

Fascinating. I'll definately want to incorporate some of these ideas into my work and I must say this is certainly quite a TL in its own right. It's good to see the technological side of history paid attention to from time to time. I do have a couple questions, though:

In terms of education, science, and industrialization what you have is America, minus the south, plus Jefferson. I can certainly see the dramatic changes you're predicting for industry, but am less sure about the rest. Did the south really hold back the building of libraries that much? And Paine never held political office, I believe, does he in this timeline?

I guess what it comes down to is whether this is what would ideally happen if such men had everything their way or whether this is what you think would probably happen in this situation.

Anyway, why do the United States need to build the Erie Canal if they control the St Lawrence? Wouldn't it be easier to just build a canal across the Niagra Peninsula? I suppose there might not have been enough of a population base there at that point... When was the Niagra built in OTL?

Admiral Matt said:

Fascinating. I'll definately want to incorporate some of these ideas into my work and I must say this is certainly quite a TL in its own right. It's good to see the technological side of history paid attention to from time to time. I do have a couple questions, though:

In terms of education, science, and industrialization what you have is America, minus the south, plus Jefferson. I can certainly see the dramatic changes you're predicting for industry, but am less sure about the rest. Did the south really hold back the building of libraries that much? And Paine never held political office, I believe, does he in this timeline?

I guess what it comes down to is whether this is what would ideally happen if such men had everything their way or whether this is what you think would probably happen in this situation.

Anyway, why do the United States need to build the Erie Canal if they control the St Lawrence? Wouldn't it be easier to just build a canal across the Niagra Peninsula? I suppose there might not have been enough of a population base there at that point... When was the Niagra built in OTL?

Click to expand...

It gets better.

Not just Jefferson, but also Washington, Henry, Madison, Jackson, etc.

Remember, in this time line the British still have Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi, as well as the freed slave state of Florida.
Further, they also are importing large numbers of British indentured orphans, criminals, paupers, etc. This keeps their labor supply cheap enough that slavery is never going to be profitable.

I'm from New York. The St. Laurence Seaway was a major boondoggle. The Erie Canal made money. We covered it in history class. The rapids on the St. Laurence were quite hard to deal with. The Mohawk valley was much simpler and shorter, with an emphasis on simpler. Getting rid of the rapids on the St. Laurence demanded lots of explosives and money.
I've forgotten most of the other problems. Anybody else from New York and younger than me? Quebec?

The southern ruling class held back public schools and libraries. After the civil war the south gradually caught up as the southern working class slowly acquired power.

Paine was elected several times to the French legislature. He held revolutionary government offices like the head of the committees of secret correspondance, the equivalent of the CIA directorship.

Oh yeah, one of the other effects is that Europe does not have Napoleon and does not modernize like in OTL. Europe still has feudalist and other systems in this ATL till god knows when.

With the US financing R+D, we certainly could double the speed of technological progress. You are too young to remember when government support of R+D was new and controversial. I read stuff by people who were there when it happened.