Which Kazakh border is the bad one?

rcduggan · Jan 16, 2008

so which Kazakh border is TDKB (that damn KAzakh border)? is it the western one, in the Astrakhan area, or its longer northern border? at least I think it's one of those too. but not sure which.

Codae · Jan 16, 2008

I think it's the western border.

Susano · Jan 17, 2008

Yeah, its the western border and some of teh western part of the northern border - that curve with the inetrruption in it. Its weird, but the northern border does always get changed, but for some reason never this part...

Wendell · Jan 17, 2008

Almost all of the Kazakh borders. Just look at them.

Looseheadprop · Jan 17, 2008

i guess the problem is most people assume that the western border is based on a river or somethin, so they just dont change it cos they have no idea what to do other wise

Qazaq2007 · Jan 17, 2008

The ultimate blame for the damn Kazakh border lies w/ the Soviets, because of their penchant for dividing the former USSR into ethnic based SSRs, and to make matters worse, the borders that were devised don't always follow ethnographic boundaries.

Wendell · Jan 17, 2008

Qazaq2007 said:
The ultimate blame for the damn Kazakh border lies w/ the Soviets, because of their penchant for dividing the former USSR into ethnic based SSRs, and to make matters worse, the borders that were devised don't always follow ethnographic boundaries.

That as well was intentional.

Wendell · Jan 17, 2008

Looseheadprop said:
i guess the problem is most people assume that the western border is based on a river or somethin, so they just dont change it cos they have no idea what to do other wise

I guess that there are grounds for such a concern, even if that border is entirely arbitrary.

Grey Wolf · Jan 18, 2008

Isn't it that its basically steppe out there, so the borders can't really run on natural features and are basically a historical accident. Different timelines for Russia, Persia etc would alter how it came to be.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Susano · Jan 18, 2008

Qazaq2007 said:
The ultimate blame for the damn Kazakh border lies w/ the Soviets, because of their penchant for dividing the former USSR into ethnic based SSRs, and to make matters worse, the borders that were devised don't always follow ethnographic boundaries.

Yeah, thats exactly the problem. If it was either following natural landmarks (it doesnt, it almost seems to get out of its way to dont) or following ethnicla boundaries (as said, it doesnt), then it would be excusable if AH borders were the same. But as is, its just a fulyl random border, and henc eshould be different in ATLs...

Rockingham · Jan 18, 2008

Did any of it follow old Russian imperial provinces before the USSR? In which case it would be semi-logical.

Qazaq2007 · Jan 18, 2008

Emperor_of_Rockingham said:
Did any of it follow old Russian imperial provinces before the USSR? In which case it would be semi-logical.

No it didn't, except maybe a small stretch between Semey (Semipalantinsk), and Omsk, even then, not exactly, and the rest of the northern border of Kazakhstan followed old guberniia (imperial province) borders even less exactly than the aforementioned border segment.

Thande · Jan 18, 2008

Qazaq2007 said:
No it didn't, except maybe a small stretch between Semey (Semipalantinsk), and Omsk, even then, not exactly, and the rest of the northern border of Kazakhstan followed old guberniia borders even less exactly than the aforementioned border segment.

I believe it was the Soviets trying to create an SSR which would have a slight Russian colonist majority to help keep it in line.

Qazaq2007 · Jan 18, 2008

Thande said:
I believe it was the Soviets trying to create an SSR which would have a slight Russian colonist majority to help keep it in line.

That's true, considering the fact that the northern tier of Kazakhstan is populated primarily by ethnic Russians vs. ethnic Kazakhs in the rest of the country.

Wendell · Jan 18, 2008

Qazaq2007 said:
That's true, considering the fact that the northern tier of Kazakhstan is populated primarily by ethnic Russians vs. ethnic Kazakhs in the rest of the country.

There is a significant Uzbek minority in one or more of the southern Kazakh provinces.

Wendell · Jan 18, 2008

Emperor_of_Rockingham said:
Did any of it follow old Russian imperial provinces before the USSR? In which case it would be semi-logical.

The border around Ural'sk looks similar to an imperial-era border used in the area.

Qazaq2007 · Jan 19, 2008

Wendell said:
There is a significant Uzbek minority in one or more of the southern Kazakh provinces.

Primarily in South Kazakhstan Oblys (province), at least according to an ethnographic map of the area that I have.