WI:No Jesuits

[mojojojo]

How would the world be different?

[Philip]

This would seriously impede the Counterreformation.

[Puseycat]

I suspect that a similar group might have formed as part of the Counter Reformation. Whether they would have been anywhere near as effective and creative without Loyola is doubtful though. I suppose that is would depend upon who emerged as a leader in the movement. Perhaps Thomas More could have resolved to become a monk in this version of history and led the movement, that might open some interesting possibilities.

[Susano]

Now, from a German position: There was a vast (defeatist one could say, from the Catholic PoV) belief in Germany that the reformation would take over anyways. It was the Counterreformation that really breathed in life into the Old Church again. Of course, the Jesuits are only part of it, the Council of Trient was arguably more important, even though the Jesuits did carry its word to all countries.

Still, without the Jesuits, many of the territories that were in the process of the Reformation and then reclaiemd by thee Counterreformation will become protestant - mainly, ironically, the ecclestial lands. I dont think the Reformation would sweep Germany, Catholicism would remain strongolds: The religious status of the Habsburg lands or Bavaria for example would entirely depend on the rulers disposition, and not on Jesuits or not. And of course, the Counterreformation (whose main achievment was to create a catholic identity seperate from the Protestant one, thus ending the Reformation as a reformation) still happens, it just loses its most important agents.

[rcduggan]

the Jesuits were not the only group of their kind, there were others. And if the Jesuits never formed, then another group would at some point, to fill a similar role.

However, without the Jesuits, Hungary would have both been largely Protestant, because it was only during the Counter-reformation that Catholicism was brought make to much of the population. also, the Jesuits were instrumental in bringing Catholicism to the native Americans, so without their work the natives are going to keep their old beliefs longer, and will only be converted through Spanish brutality.

the Jesuits were also active in China, Cambodia (they had plans to convert the Khmer King!) and Indonesia, so those areas would not be as affected either.