A nazi T-34?

[Ynnead]

How would world war 2 have been affected if german built the t-34 ( it would not be called that but it would be the same design has the OTL) instead of russia?

[zoomar]

What do you mean? They invented the T-34, or simply chose to copy and adopt it as the German standard tank instead of spending time on the Panther

The problem with the first option is, if the Germans adopt a Christie based modern tank like the T-34 instead of the PZKW III-IV series, what do the Soviets adopt? Shermans? Realistically, it would not make much difference in the long term. German armor was pretty much better than UK and US tanks even without the Panther and Tiger anyway...and the Russians would still develop the excellent KV and IS series of heavy tanks. German initial successes were made because of superior training, and later Soviet successes occured because of greater numbers and the rising standard of Soviet crews. German T-34's would still be outnumbered and eventually outfought.

[Ynnead]

they invented the T-34, I am not saying replaces it anything in the german tank development

[MrP]

Originally Posted by thecreeper

they invented the T-34, I am not saying replaces it anything in the german tank development

Well, it has to replace something, if only because you'll need a design team drawn from OTL projects to create TTL's German T-34.

[zoomar]

Originally Posted by thecreeper

they invented the T-34, I am not saying replaces it anything in the german tank development

If they invent the T-34, they would not then develop the Panther, which was a response to the T-34. Plus, the T-34 concept and chassis is based on a much earlier US concept. If the Germans, instead of the Russians, follow this line, it would, as Mr P states, necessarily replace the arguably less advanced and capable PzKw III-IV.

[Ynnead]

The most likely think I think of it replacing is the Maus , I mean that thing took up a lot of time developing. I imagine if the germans had the T-34 (I bet it would be called the Panzer Cheetah, or something) I doubt they would even take the maus past the drawing board. the panther still might of been develop , it was a really good tank. and the panzer III would most likely have not been developed. so the T-34 replaces the panzer III / IV (possibly), maus,

[zoomar]

Originally Posted by thecreeper

The most likely think I think of it replacing is the Maus , I mean that thing took up a lot of time developing. I imagine if the germans had the T-34 (I bet it would be called the Panzer Cheetah, or something) I doubt they would even take the maus past the drawing board. the panther still might of been develop , it was a really good tank

The Maus and the T-34 were completely different. One was a completely unrealistic giant tank and the other was a relatively fast and versitle medium tank. German (or Nazi) gigantism would lead to the Maus regardless of what the Germans used for medium tanks.

OK, to take your basic idea, IF the Germans developed the T-34 (or something functionally similar - a reliable, powerful, fast, well armored tank on a Christie chassis) in the late 1930's, it would probably replace the PzKW IV series of medium tanks. Now that we are in another time line, the Panther would never be developed, but the follow on medium tanks would probably be more like the Soviet T-44s and T-54, but not developed very quickly because what they already had (T-34s) was better than anything the USA/UK had and as good as anything the Russians would likely have. Something like the Tiger series might still be developed as they fall in a differeent niche and appeal to the Nazi mania for giant tanks.

[Ynnead]

I still think the panther would have been developed

[wkwillis]

I would have expected that the KV-1 (first used in the 1940 Winter War in Finland) would have been adopted instead. It was a bigger tank and would have enabled the Germans to fight all the way up to the earlier JS versions. Also, one could have been captured by the Finns and turned over to the Germans more than a year earlier than Barbarossa. They could have copied it in time to be able to fight with it in the later battles in 1942 after their earlier tanks were destroyed by the Russians in the initial battles in 1941.
The T-34 was not captured until 1941 and would have been available a year later than the KV-1.

[zoomar]

Originally Posted by thecreeper

I still think the panther would have been developed

I don't want to argue this, but it is very improbable the Germans would design a completely new tank (the Panther) when they already had one (the T-34) just about as capable, with similar performance, and a lot more reliable. You give the Germans T-34s in 1940/41 and the entire trajectory of German armor development would change.

[Ynnead]

I know, but its a really good tank

[zoomar]

Originally Posted by thecreeper

I know, but its a really good tank

Agreed, it is a good tank

[Ynnead]

the best tank that germany ever made

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by thecreeper

I still think the panther would have been developed

The Panther was developed as a direct counter to the T-34, if the Nazis already had a tank that was equivalent to the T-34 then there'd be no need to develop the Panther. They'd have gone straight to the Tiger to counter the KV's.

[Ynnead]

true it was made to counter the t-34 , but it was such a good design, they might have made it so they have more than just one awesome tank

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by thecreeper

true it was made to counter the t-34 , but it was such a good design, they might have made it so they have more than just one awesome tank

If the Nazis already have one well armed, well armoured tank in the medium weight class they're not going to waste time and resourses building another that has the same gun and similar protection.

[Ynnead]

oh right, well darn it

[MrP]

Originally Posted by Landshark

If the Nazis already have one well armed, well armoured tank in the medium weight class they're not going to waste time and resourses building another that has the same gun and similar protection.

I'm torn between agreeing, because you're almost certainly right, and disagreeing, because Hitler was nuts.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by MrP

I'm torn between agreeing, because you're almost certainly right, and disagreeing, because Hitler was nuts.

That's basically what I was just about to say until I reached your post.

Steve

[Ynnead]

Originally Posted by MrP

I'm torn between agreeing, because you're almost certainly right, and disagreeing, because Hitler was nuts.

that would be something hitler would do