One of the reasons why New Zealand rejected membership in the Australian Commonwealth, in the late 1890s, was because their PM at the the time believed that New Zealand's fate would mirror that of Britain. Consequentially New Zealand would establish a vast empire throughout the Asia-Pacific region. Needless to say that hasn't happened yet. So the challenge is, with a POD somewhere in the 1800s, make New Zealand's manifest destiny come true: The Great New Zealand Empire!
Challenge: The Great New Zealand Empire
- Thread starter DMA
- Start date
Seriously? The 1890's? Where did he expect New Zealand to get its colonies? China? The Ottoman Empire? Peru?
Due to someone in 1872 slipping on dog poo and breaking his neck who didn't OTL, WWIII breaks out in 1990, and fascist Australia is one of the targets. Untouched neutral New Zealand later repopulates the empty lands of the N. Pacific.
More seriously, New Zealand didn't get much in the way of European settlement before the 1840's. If we want it to have the economic and human base to go in for large-scale colonization before everything is snatched up, you need to get large-scale settlement going rather earlier, probably needing a POD back at least in 18th century.
Of course, then there's the TL where the Maori learn ship-building skills and the uses of compasses from Ming exploratory expeditions, begin to build large ocean-going ships, and go on to conquer Australia, Melanesia, and Hawaii, and battle the Russians for control of the Pacific NW fur trade...
Bruce
Well technically NZ already has an empire (the Realm of New Zealand). I think all that needs to be done is to expand the Realm of New Zealand a bit more - maybe Lord Howe Island, Norfolk Island, Pitcairn Island, and Christmas Island become part of New Zealand instead of Australia/UK?
Grey Wolf
Donor
If the ex-German colonies had all gone to New Zealand, rather than being shared among the Allies ? Possible perhaps with the USA and Japan staying out of WW1. Easy enough perhaps to keep the US out (finish the war earlier) whilst Germany could have agreed to cede Tsingtao or Japan could be involved in some conflict already, potentials anyway
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Yes, I'm quite sure that Australia and the UK would cower before NZ's military might and hand over Christmas Island and Pitcairn without hesitation. But why stop there? The Pacific superpower that is NZ could easily annex all of the Pacific islands including the Sandwich Islands and Japan just by dispatching a few aircraft carriers and marine divisions. Long live Pax New Zealandia!
Hmm...A bit early, but I once read a TL where the 13 colonies are more successful in the AWI and Loyalists/Canadians are resettled in New Zealand ala Draka. Not terribly plausible, but an interesting read, non the less.
Well it was hard to resist
. I could probably accept a New Zealand-centred Pacific federation, but a 'Great New Zealand Empire' is pushing it a little. It would be about as impressive as the Trapezuntine Empire.Well, this is part of TL i'm planning for Aden, but it could work here:
William Abdullah Quilliam founds a cult-like thingy of Muslim converts in Britain. They gather a following for some time, reaching a few thousands. Quilliam and his people recieve a charter to settle in New Zealand.
Quilliam's charisma and romanticism lead his people in an extensive project of settlement and Islamization. The islands' entire none-Christian population (as well as a sizeable amount of it's Christian population) convert to Islam.
The Muslim settlers regard New Zealand as "New Arabia", or a second Islamic Caliphate. They create a new administrative center of their country, "New Mecca".
The New Arabians discourage any religion but Islam, but allow Christians and Jews to live their segregated lives - leading many to convert anyway. Maori tribal feuds suddenly result into fierce religious fighting, and nearly 35,000 Muslim troops are sent from India to quell down things, most of these soldiers would settle down in Muslim New Arabia.
Muslim settlers and explorers lead the way into eastern and central New Guinea. After New Arabia recieves Dominion status in 1904, they demand that western New Guinea be included in their domain. The British however, not wanting to anger the Australians (who also lay claim to it) keep the area for themselves.
Parts of the New-Arabian ruled lands in New Guinea lay within the Dutch domain, which increases tensions between the two countries. In 1913, after threatening with rebellion, the New Arabian leaders of eastern New Guinea are allowed to merge with the Dominion of New Arabia. The Dutch, infuriated, begin plotting.
During WW1, the Netherlands join Germany. Declaring a massive jihad, New Arabia 'liberates' the Islamic lands in Christian rule - Dutch Indonesia. Many local nobles die during the fighting, and all survivors are execute after they are captured. The New Arabians are ruled by the Kor'an - and by nothing else.
After the war, New Arabia fought her master (Britain) and sister (Australia) for the spoils. The British argued that it would be impossible for a single Dominion to stretch so greatly across seas, and that the naval power of the Royal Navy is prefferable to it. The New Arabians showed their rather medium-sized yet mighty fleet to prove their capabilities.
After the war, there is massive movement of population from New Arabia to old Arabia - especially Aden and Oman. The oil deposits of Indonesia make New Arabia extremely rich. In 1941, Japan declares war and invades. Japanese troops even land in New Arabia herself, but are pushed out after several months. New Arabians would argue that Britain does very little to relieve their pain. Menawhile, the Japs are experiencing their own little Vietnam in Islamist Indonesia. In 1945, as the Japanese are pushed further and further back, the New Arabians manage to reconquer their territory all the way back to Malaya, as well as sieze Hong Kong and a small territory in southern China.
The Dominion of New Arabia declares independence following Japan's surrender, but maintains a firm claim to any territories it gained during the war - including Hong Kong and Singapore. The New Arabians never let go of the 'liberated' British territories - what would lead to the Commonwealth War.
British intelligence, for some reason, come with the idea that some Nazis have fled to South Africa and Rhodesia. They conduct an agressive search for the nonexistant Nazis, leading to another Boer revolt. The Muslim State of New Arabia immidietly take the rebels' side. One thing leads to another, and New Zealend and South Africa end-up fighting a war against the rest of the Empire.
Engouh for now.
William Abdullah Quilliam founds a cult-like thingy of Muslim converts in Britain. They gather a following for some time, reaching a few thousands. Quilliam and his people recieve a charter to settle in New Zealand.
Quilliam's charisma and romanticism lead his people in an extensive project of settlement and Islamization. The islands' entire none-Christian population (as well as a sizeable amount of it's Christian population) convert to Islam.
The Muslim settlers regard New Zealand as "New Arabia", or a second Islamic Caliphate. They create a new administrative center of their country, "New Mecca".
The New Arabians discourage any religion but Islam, but allow Christians and Jews to live their segregated lives - leading many to convert anyway. Maori tribal feuds suddenly result into fierce religious fighting, and nearly 35,000 Muslim troops are sent from India to quell down things, most of these soldiers would settle down in Muslim New Arabia.
Muslim settlers and explorers lead the way into eastern and central New Guinea. After New Arabia recieves Dominion status in 1904, they demand that western New Guinea be included in their domain. The British however, not wanting to anger the Australians (who also lay claim to it) keep the area for themselves.
Parts of the New-Arabian ruled lands in New Guinea lay within the Dutch domain, which increases tensions between the two countries. In 1913, after threatening with rebellion, the New Arabian leaders of eastern New Guinea are allowed to merge with the Dominion of New Arabia. The Dutch, infuriated, begin plotting.
During WW1, the Netherlands join Germany. Declaring a massive jihad, New Arabia 'liberates' the Islamic lands in Christian rule - Dutch Indonesia. Many local nobles die during the fighting, and all survivors are execute after they are captured. The New Arabians are ruled by the Kor'an - and by nothing else.
After the war, New Arabia fought her master (Britain) and sister (Australia) for the spoils. The British argued that it would be impossible for a single Dominion to stretch so greatly across seas, and that the naval power of the Royal Navy is prefferable to it. The New Arabians showed their rather medium-sized yet mighty fleet to prove their capabilities.
After the war, there is massive movement of population from New Arabia to old Arabia - especially Aden and Oman. The oil deposits of Indonesia make New Arabia extremely rich. In 1941, Japan declares war and invades. Japanese troops even land in New Arabia herself, but are pushed out after several months. New Arabians would argue that Britain does very little to relieve their pain. Menawhile, the Japs are experiencing their own little Vietnam in Islamist Indonesia. In 1945, as the Japanese are pushed further and further back, the New Arabians manage to reconquer their territory all the way back to Malaya, as well as sieze Hong Kong and a small territory in southern China.
The Dominion of New Arabia declares independence following Japan's surrender, but maintains a firm claim to any territories it gained during the war - including Hong Kong and Singapore. The New Arabians never let go of the 'liberated' British territories - what would lead to the Commonwealth War.
British intelligence, for some reason, come with the idea that some Nazis have fled to South Africa and Rhodesia. They conduct an agressive search for the nonexistant Nazis, leading to another Boer revolt. The Muslim State of New Arabia immidietly take the rebels' side. One thing leads to another, and New Zealend and South Africa end-up fighting a war against the rest of the Empire.
Engouh for now.
Here’s some ideas for a New Zealand “empire”, though it could be construed as being somewhat ‘wankish’.
Firstly, in 1839 NZ was annexed by New South Wales, perhaps if the treaty of Waitangi is not signed, and then the New South Wales Continuance Act is not passed the following year and both remain the same colony. I’m not really sure where to go from here, as this creates more of a New South Wales empire (if you could even call it that!) than a New Zealand “empire”. Also, I don’t know how the treaty of Waitangi is not signed without an earlier POD, and if it isn’t you’ll probably have a French Colony in modern day Canterbury (which really is the best bit of New Zealand- I swear!) as well as the British having no real control over most of the country, especially the Maori-chiefdoms.
But let’s say this does happen, and several years later, as the French colony grows to engulf most of the South Island, New South Wales makes moves to formally assume control of all the North Island and monopolize Maori trade. (There was a relatively small population of Maori in the South Island, and they would have been incapable of resisting the French attempts at purchasing or forcibly confiscating their land unlike the North Island Maori). New South Wales invades the Waikato (the fertile river valley south of Auckland)- the Maori stronghold in much the same way the Crown did so in the 1860s during the Land Wars. Fierce fighting takes place, and the crown finds the going much tougher than expected. However after a decade of brutal warfare most Maori tribes are crushed or assimilated.
The situation is now a British (NSW) North Island and all but a small part of the South Island under French control. The Maori culture is slowly being eliminated in both islands (though more so in the North- this is similar to OTL). Around 1870 the relationship between NSW and NZ was formalized, (British) NZ would become a part of New South Wales. This Tasman-Centric colony would change the how Australia would federalize. Traders in New Zealand would eventually sway the vote, fearing tariffs from a united Australian commonwealth. Thus NSW would not become a part of the Commonwealth in the 1890s. This also upset the process of other states joining the federation. In 1906 the threat of Japan, Russia, Germany, France et al caused a new conference on federation, the result was Victoria and Tasmania joining a New South Wales lead commonwealth. Fiji would later join as well. The new colony was named Federation of Australia. Queensland and Western Australia would remain as separate colonies. The Federation of Australia was given dominion status.
World War One goes in much the same way as in OTL, though after the war Samoa and New Guinea would join the Federation. Before World War Two Western Australia, South Australia and Queensland would too.
Okay, I’ve just realized that this has little to do with New Zealand at all, just that there is a larger ‘Australia’ and the South Island is a separate French Colony (which I haven’t mentioned much at all…). Meh.
Firstly, in 1839 NZ was annexed by New South Wales, perhaps if the treaty of Waitangi is not signed, and then the New South Wales Continuance Act is not passed the following year and both remain the same colony. I’m not really sure where to go from here, as this creates more of a New South Wales empire (if you could even call it that!) than a New Zealand “empire”. Also, I don’t know how the treaty of Waitangi is not signed without an earlier POD, and if it isn’t you’ll probably have a French Colony in modern day Canterbury (which really is the best bit of New Zealand- I swear!
) as well as the British having no real control over most of the country, especially the Maori-chiefdoms. But let’s say this does happen, and several years later, as the French colony grows to engulf most of the South Island, New South Wales makes moves to formally assume control of all the North Island and monopolize Maori trade. (There was a relatively small population of Maori in the South Island, and they would have been incapable of resisting the French attempts at purchasing or forcibly confiscating their land unlike the North Island Maori). New South Wales invades the Waikato (the fertile river valley south of Auckland)- the Maori stronghold in much the same way the Crown did so in the 1860s during the Land Wars. Fierce fighting takes place, and the crown finds the going much tougher than expected. However after a decade of brutal warfare most Maori tribes are crushed or assimilated.
The situation is now a British (NSW) North Island and all but a small part of the South Island under French control. The Maori culture is slowly being eliminated in both islands (though more so in the North- this is similar to OTL). Around 1870 the relationship between NSW and NZ was formalized, (British) NZ would become a part of New South Wales. This Tasman-Centric colony would change the how Australia would federalize. Traders in New Zealand would eventually sway the vote, fearing tariffs from a united Australian commonwealth. Thus NSW would not become a part of the Commonwealth in the 1890s. This also upset the process of other states joining the federation. In 1906 the threat of Japan, Russia, Germany, France et al caused a new conference on federation, the result was Victoria and Tasmania joining a New South Wales lead commonwealth. Fiji would later join as well. The new colony was named Federation of Australia. Queensland and Western Australia would remain as separate colonies. The Federation of Australia was given dominion status.
World War One goes in much the same way as in OTL, though after the war Samoa and New Guinea would join the Federation. Before World War Two Western Australia, South Australia and Queensland would too.
Okay, I’ve just realized that this has little to do with New Zealand at all, just that there is a larger ‘Australia’ and the South Island is a separate French Colony (which I haven’t mentioned much at all…). Meh.
Who is this William Abdullah Quilliam character? He sounds like a lunatic. What kind of maniac would try to turn Middle Earth into a Caliphate?