Nazi Space Program

If Nazi Germany won WW2 by 1943. The Nazis Staying in power rebuilding and maintaining their economy. Etc.

How long it would take for them to put a man in space?
Taking in to account that in the OTL the Americans and the Soviets recruited most of the German rocket scientists for their own space programs.

P.S. Nazi Germany did actually have ambitions of space exploration
 
Seuftz das schon wieder... (oh boy that Again)

If The Führer Give his ok – Time Line goes like this :

1936 to 1944
development of A1 to A5

1944 to 1948
The SS take The Program in they hands
Mass Production of A-4 (V-2)
development of A5 to A9 (include with storable propellants.)
A-8 German "Scud" ( the USSR used the A-8 Design as base for the Scud) ;)
A-6 Fist Manned Rocket Flight at Mach 3 with Rocket / ramjet
A-9 Fligth (First Suborbital Human Space Flight with a A9 ?)
A-10/A-9 Flight - NAZI have frist "THOR" ICBM !

1948 to 1952
Mass Production of A-8 A-9/A-10
development of A11 to A12
Launch First Satellite "Munin" (by A-11/A-10/A-9 Rocket )
A-4 is put out Servis, replace by A-8

1952 to 1956
new Technolgy - Von Braun Start on a reusable space launcher A-13
First Human A SS-Nazi In Orbit (A-12/A-11/A-10/A-9 Rocket)
more Satelite and Human Space Flight
A-8FM SLBM is installed in German submarine

1956 to 1960
Launch of first reusable Space Shuttle "Walküre" (A-13/A-12/Fahre )
start Build of a toroidal Space Station "Asgard" with a crew of 48 persons.

1960 to 1964
new Technolgy
"Hugin" Lunar Orbital Fly from Space Station
first expeditions of Moon (12 men 6 weeks) at Sinus Roris in 1964
First Human On the Moon the SS claim the Moon for the REICH

1964 to 1968
More Moon expeditions and SS-Moon Base "Mjölnir" with A-9 ICBM
this a rehearsal of techniques for later Mars expeditions

1968 to 1972
new Technolgy NTR and Ionn Engine
First Venus Flyby as rehearsal for Mars expeditions
First Mars expeditions (12 men 3 Years) Temporaly SS-Base "Utgard" on Mars
the SS claim the Mars for the REICH

1972 to 1976
More Mars expeditions
More Venus Orbit "Hugin" expeditions
manned Flight to Mercury ?
First Jupiter Moon expeditions (5 years)

I can go on until the Nazi Get to next Near Starsystem....

if finde some similarities with Collier's magazine Spaceproject
that is orginal from Von Braun

Name von Germanic mythology and Richard Wagern work...

Souce:
http://www.astronautix.com/lvfam/vonbraun.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/vonander.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/vonn1956.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/stus1957.htm
 
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The timeline seems a little truncated, I do not belive that they can get that far that fast. A little faster in the race to the moon then in our timeline but not much more. After first lunar landing they may expand faster since it's economy rater then technology that have delayed our timeline's space program. However, A surviving Nazi empire will have similar economical concerns, they probably have their hands full with a cold war with the US and maybe surviving parts of Soviet Union.
 
The timeline seems a little truncated

in OTL from 1945 to 1950 von Braun had No Work !
beginn 1950 the US Army ordert the development of a Advance A-4 called "Redstone"
wat was bulid first of 1952 by Chrysler and Testet until 1956
and the Pentagon had Controll on Von Braun "That he not start a Satellite by mistake"
but then came the Sputnik launch and Vangard Explosion and Von Braun hab his chance

and USSR in 1945 to 1950 ?
Sergei Korolev had to jump 20 YEARS of Technology !
only 1957 they had technolgy Possibility to launch Sputnik 1

so imagine wat Von Braun had do in that lost 5 Years !!!

the Later Program like Moon landing can be "Cold War" winner against US or Japan. include of Installmend of Lunar A-9 ICBM as Doomsday wappon.

but there other point
The NAZI are conquerer. wat do you conquerer, if you got the World ?
other Worlds ...
 
in OTL from 1945 to 1950 von Braun had No Work !
beginn 1950 the US Army ordert the development of a Advance A-4 called "Redstone"
wat was bulid first of 1952 by Chrysler and Testet until 1956
and the Pentagon had Controll on Von Braun "That he not start a Satellite by mistake"
but then came the Sputnik launch and Vangard Explosion and Von Braun hab his chance
Where to start...

You do realize that the fact that America was "beaten" to space was as much a political decision by Eisenhower as by any other technical progress? Had the US launched a satellite over Soviet territory, it would have been an intrusion of airspace or a possible causus belli. But when Russia did it first, it was a carte blanch invitation for the US to do whatever it wanted.

and USSR in 1945 to 1950 ?
Sergei Korolev had to jump 20 YEARS of Technology !
only 1957 they had technolgy Possibility to launch Sputnik 1
There is still a technology gap; the physics, the chemistry, the industrial, and more. The Germans may have had a lead with jets and rockets, but not so much in the other fields relevant, such as the chemistry for rocket fuel (too jewish), the industry needed for strong and pure metals (Germany was outproduced by all three of its major enemies), and the German brain trust was systematically being destroyed from the previous republic. There wouldn't have been the thousands upon thousands of new university students, just out of college after the war, to do most of the work needed.

so imagine wat Von Braun had do in that lost 5 Years !!!
In the US, with five years Von Braun could have launched a satellite into space. Launching a satellite is no big deal; it's just a roman candle. Building space shuttles, space stations, and more require much more in the way of industrial and technological development, development that did happen in those five years. Five years of launching primitive satellites won't change much, and earlier maned launches only drastically increase the chance of catastrophic disaster, which all maned space programs have.

You're also working with the fallacy that the Germans would pursue rocket technology into space with a good deal of vigor. Germany drastically scaled down its research in rocket and jets during the war, and prewar the British were well in the lead. Germany only started rushing its research as last ditch wonder weapons, and those weren't even that good. Arguing that Germany, with an economy smaller than Britain or America, is going to devote its entire military industrial complex (infamous for petty infighting, inefficiency, and more) to rockets is, to put it simply, laughable. The German vision for rockets wasn't space flight; it was bombers that could hit the US with chemical weapons before gliding back to Germany.


the Later Program like Moon landing can be "Cold War" winner against US or Japan. include of Installmend of Lunar A-9 ICBM as Doomsday wappon.

:rolleyes:
The Space Race was a propaganda event, not some fight to the death. The US landed on the moon... and promptly left, and the Cold War continued. There is no advantage of a lunar missile capability that can not be done infinitely cheaper on Earth. Lunar silos only have second-strike capability; the time from the moon to Earth is long enough that the nuclear war (assuming the Germans get a nuke, no guarantee unless the US uses one publicly) will be over by the time it gets there. If you want second strike, invest in GASP submarines. They provide second strike at a fraction of the cost, as well as potential for first strike capability.

but there other point
The NAZI are conquerer. wat do you conquerer, if you got the World ?
other Worlds ...
Again, :rolleyes:. At MOST, Germany here has gotten Russia, France, and parts of Africa/ the Middle East. That still leaves Fortress America, Asia (an American ally, with possible exception of China and its satellites, as the US and Japan were already about to fight and that conclusion is unavoidable), South America (part of Fortress America), Africa (no black would ever want to go under the Nazis), and India.

That's still an entire world, with the strongest part already against Germany and dragging along much of the rest of the world, especially when public Nazi racial policy condemned most of the world to slavery. There is also those minor details such as ECONOMY, EDUCATION, and REALITY to consider, though I suppose most of those don't even make a passing encounter with this "time line" of yours.
 
You do realize that the fact that America was "beaten" to space was as much a political decision by Eisenhower as by any other technical progress?
Yes I kown that fact US Politic Delay the Space Progress

The Germans may have had a lead with jets and rockets, but not so much in the other fields relevant, such as the chemistry for rocket fuel (too jewish)
Germans were Fare A Head of there time so 1950!
stuff like real Computer, TV Gided Bombs, SAM and Air To Air Missle and and and
(the USSR were at end of the war on Level of 1920)
BMW Testet 3000 Combination of Fuels and Oxidator from 1940 to 1945
source Astronautix, the Book "Astronautik" by A.F. Marfeld 1969 and "Geheimprojekt Mittelbau" by Manfred Bornemann 1994

Germany drastically scaled down its research in rocket and jets during the war
only scaled down by bombard on German Industry
in Book "Geheimprojekt Mittelbau" by Manfred Bornemann
had put the SS a Maxium Priority on V-2 Projeckt until 1945
like Underground Factory Mittelbau with KZ "lager Dora"
in 1944 the SS start to build a Underground Factory for A-10/A-9 production (never finish) sorry dont recall the Name U-Verlagerung

the German brain trust was systematically being destroyed from the previous republic.
the USSR too lost Brain trust and they Start Sputnik and Gagarin.

At MOST, Germany here has gotten Russia, France, and parts of Africa/ the Middle East.

almost
Hitler "Mein Kampf" had 3 Point Program of World domination
one: Conquest of Europe an West Russia (tried in WW 2)
tow: Conquest of Africa, Arabia and west Asia
tree: Conquest of Rest of the World by defeating USA (and Japan ?)

Hitler sahr the world as kind a Victorycup that the strongest takes itself.

to Military Moon Base
the US had Army Horizon (by Von Braun) and USAF Lunex study
Later in 1970 SAC study to Install MX ICBM rockets on Moon

so why no Nazi Military Moon Base with ICBM to Controll the World ?
 
Germans were Fare A Head of there time so 1950!
stuff like real Computer, TV Gided Bombs, SAM and Air To Air Missle and and and
Exaggerating much? This isn't Draka-verse; we don't skip generations of technology in a matter of years. Hence the word GENERATION. Especially from a nation who's share of patents was declining pre-war, and who virtually gambled everything on arms buildups that, had they not invaded and looted Western and Eastern Europe, would have crashed the economy shortly.

(the USSR were at end of the war on Level of 1920)
Er, no. The USSR was at the level of the 1920s in the 1930s. Russia was much better than that by the 40s. If you want to accuse one side of being technologically backwards, blame the Nazis and their horse drawn artillery.
BMW Testet 3000 Combination of Fuels and Oxidator from 1940 to 1945
source Astronautix, the Book "Astronautik" by A.F. Marfeld 1969 and "Geheimprojekt Mittelbau" by Manfred Bornemann 1994
:confused: WTF? That's not even a sentence, so I can't do anything short of pointing out that German rocket planes often fell apart in mid-air.


only scaled down by bombard on German Industry
As opponents of strategic bombing love to point out, production actually INCREASED in the last year of the war. And the bombing of German cities started AFTER 1942ish, when the technological research scale back was ordered.

in Book "Geheimprojekt Mittelbau" by Manfred Bornemann
had put the SS a Maxium Priority on V-2 Projeckt until 1945
like Underground Factory Mittelbau with KZ "lager Dora"
in 1944 the SS start to build a Underground Factory for A-10/A-9 production (never finish) sorry dont recall the Name U-Verlagerung
The V-2 itself, though, was hardly and astronomically useful or outstanding weapon; it could be shot down, was inaccurate, and more. German advances in rockets didn't/doesn't translate into technological supremacy by any means post-war, merely a head start.

And once again, I'll point out that parts of the German rocket program in 1944 are irrelevant, because they were brought back on line as the war was already being lost as last-ditch weapons. If the war isn't being lost, then there's no need for last-ditch weapons, as Nazi leadership proved during the war.

the USSR too lost Brain trust and they Start Sputnik and Gagarin.
The USSR not only kept parts of the Czar brain trust, though, but also built their own. Like it or not, the USSR was a major player in science in the Cold War, initially beating the West in multiple respects. But did these advantages in the space program, heavy industry, and manpower (only one of which Germany would have) win the Cold War for the soviets?


almost
Hitler "Mein Kampf" had 3 Point Program of World domination
one: Conquest of Europe an West Russia (tried in WW 2)
tow: Conquest of Africa, Arabia and west Asia
tree: Conquest of Rest of the World by defeating USA (and Japan ?)

Hitler sahr the world as kind a Victorycup that the strongest takes itself.
Reality check, man. What Hitler wanted doesn't matter; what Germany can do does. Germany can't take Britain ala Sealion. Germany might be able to take the Soviets, and on the extreme we can wave the plausibility rule and give him the ME and supra-Saharan Africa because he closed Gibralter. But that leaves the rest of the world, and Germany has neither the manpower or the economy to take it.

Hitler also saw race and all sorts of things as guaranteeing his victory, but so what?


to Military Moon Base
the US had Army Horizon (by Von Braun) and USAF Lunex study
Later in 1970 SAC study to Install MX ICBM rockets on Moon

so why no Nazi Military Moon Base with ICBM to Controll the World ?

:rolleyes: Please, how would ICBMs on the moon "Controll the World"? ICBMs aren't tactical weapons to win a war, and nuclear bombs aren't that effective either. Especially when the US is going to get the bomb first.

Really, think this through. You can put a nuke on the moon, but so what? It doesn't give you an advantage in any form, shape, or fashion that can't be provided by earth methods. Plus, the US could always make their own moonbase, even if Germany got there first.
 
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http://www.ironsky.net/

Ohh Yes The New Movie from maker of "Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning" :D
http://www.starwreck.com/introduction.php

Back To Nazi Space Program and Reality Check
(a Reality Check on a Alternate History :confused:)

The Nazi had For Endsieg (final Victory) several Plans.
  1. Rebuil the five Fürher Citys (Berlin, München, Nürmberg, Linz, Hamburg) for Berlin rebuliding cost alone 5 Billion Reichs Mark
  2. frist Generalplan Ost or destruction of Poland, Transfornation in to German Settler area for over 2 Billion Reichs Mark
  3. second Gerneralplan Ost destuction of East Europe,
    build of New Autobahnen (Highways), New Trainsystem, several Hydroeletric Dams on Ruins of Soviet cities, a Second Holocaust on East European and Transfornation in to German Settler area for 2 TRILLION Reichsmark
  4. Preparation for the next war phase to conquest Africa & Asia

Alone those Program estimate cost of 2,5 TRILION Reichsmark
(with out rebuild cost of WW2!)
1 Reichsmark (1937/38) = 3,58 Euro (source Wikipedia)
to day money: 8,95 Trilion Euro or $12.671 Trilion :eek:

example:
The United States economy had (GDP) of, $13.21 trillion in 2006.
Belgium had state debts of 1.5 billion euro in 1980...

under that Point of view had a Nazi better say SS-Space Program purely military and civilian programs on low flame!

mean after War.
development of A6 to A11 with storable propellants.

A8 SRBM replacement of A4 (V-2)
A9 SRBM or manned, Mach 3 ramjet-powered version for reconnaissance
A10/A9 MRBM (ICBM with A9 Ramjet engine)
A11/A10/A9 ICBM (and Satllite Launcher)

As storable propellants they considert Salbei and Gasöl

Oxidator
Salbei-K: Mixture of 96% Conc. Nitric acid and 4% Ironcloride (FeCl3.6H2O)
or
Salbei: Mixture 90 to 98% fuming nitric acid and 2 to 10 % Sulphuric Acid

Fuel
Gasöl: Fuel oil (in this case a Synetic Diesel from Carbon )

but even with this Scale down Program
Von Braun has the possiblty to Launch A Satellite in Low Orbit and send Humans suborbital spaceflight

a manned A10/A9 or carrier aircraft/A9 (like X-15 Flight)
some were after 1950 for manned Suborbital and 1955 for the Satellite

Source about Endsieg Programs:
"Wenn Hitler den Krieg gewonnen hätte" by Ralph Giordano
Isbn 3-462-02944-4 (german Language)
must read book with most detailt Information about Endsieg plans of Nazi.

Virtual history. Alternative and Counterfactuals
edited by Niall Ferguson
ISBN-10: 0330413031
ISBN-13: 978-0330413039

Source on Nazi Rocket Program
www.Astronautix.com , the Book "Astronautik" by A.F. Marfeld 1969 and "Geheimprojekt Mittelbau" by Manfred Bornemann 1994
 
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