Did anyone ever do a timeline where Isabella marries the King of Poturgal instead of Ferdinand? Seems like an obvious POD to explore.
Castille and Portugal merge
- Thread starter Garbageman
- Start date
Admiral Matt
Gone Fishin'
Permanently. It's only marginally less easy than merging the Castillians and the Aragonese/Catalans.
That may or may not be true. The reason Ferdinand and Isabella so succesfully united Spain was the civil war with Juana.
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juana,_princess_of_Castile
And here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Castilian_Succession
The war was a by-product of Juana marrying Alfonso of Portugal after Isabella rejected him. Seeing as Isabella marries Alfonso, I'd speculate Juana would marry Ferdinand. This won't cause a war, but it might sow anti-Portuguese/Castilian feelings in Aragon.
Since the War of Castilian Succesion never happens, the Spanish Inquisistion may not be extablished, or may not become so powerful.
An interesting question that nags me is what the union of Castile and Portugal will be called. Castile and Aragon had always been known as Spain in general, so that explains why that name sprung up in OTL. But Portugal has always been regarded as non-Spanish. Could this change?
The colonization era of this TL will also be interesting, considering Aragon is probably going to be a rump state of OTL Spain and Portugal/Castile is going to be an uber-Portugal. Add England's treaty with Portugal and you've got a mighty interesting prospect.
Well Aragon would centered in getting the control of the West Mediterranean, Aragon controlled Sicily and Sardinia (apart naturally of the Balearic islands), also in Napoles was governing Ferdinand I, an ally of Aragon, there was also claims of Aragon to Navarra, because Juan II was also king of Navarra, I suppose like in OTL at the death of Juan II Navarra will not inherit by Ferdinand II king of Aragon but by Francisco Febo, grandson of Carlos de Viana (brother of Ferdinand II), because the french controlled Rosellon and Cerdaña, had interests in Navarra and surely like in OTL they would try to control Italy and Napoles, Aragon and France would be in a confrontation at the end of the XV century, it is difficult to know who would prevail in this fight, although surely the fighting would be far more complicated than in OTL because Ferdinand would have not as efficient leader of troops Gonzalo Fernandez de Cordoba, because in TTL being Castilla united with Portugal Gonzalo would not at the service of Ferdinand.
It is sure that Aragon would try to get alliances in the fight against France, could be Henry VII -he had problems with France in Brittany, although the internal situation of England was could be too much dangerous for foreign adventures- and surely Maximilian I of Habsburg that was confronting France because the control of the inheritance of Borgoña.
So not necessarily Aragon could be a rump state in Spain, only that it would be a state centered in getting the hegemony in the Western Mediterranean.
maverick
Banned
But what would happen to the Turks and their domain of the Mediterranean?
And what happens to the Habsburgs? does this idea eliminate the House of Austria?
This world could either see a strong coalition of Aragon-Venice and the Pope or a Mediterranean dominated by the Ottoman Empire...
And what happens to the Habsburgs? does this idea eliminate the House of Austria?
This world could either see a strong coalition of Aragon-Venice and the Pope or a Mediterranean dominated by the Ottoman Empire...
mobius
Banned
In the Middle Ages Spain and Iberian Peninsula were the same thing, only since the portuguese separation from Castille in 1640 has Portugal been regarded as non-Spain and Castille-Aragon became known only as Spain.
Would/could Aragon try to rebuild a Mediterranean empire in the mold of ancient Rome?
I didn't know that, but it sounds reliable enough. That would make Castile/Portugal Spain and Aragon stays Aragon.
It's very possible that Aragon will focus on the Mediterranean, but it will be far from the master of the region. They're dealing with the Austrians, French, Turks, various Islamic factions and even more Italian/Balkan factions. In OTL, Portugal focused on sea exploration on the Atlantic since it was pressed to the sea. I think it's plausible Aragon will do the same with the Med. Perhaps an Aragonese North African empire?
RE:
Would the Pope bother dividing up the rest of the world like he did between Spain and Portugal in OTL (with France maybe replacing Portugal), or just give it all to this world's Spain? With Aragon separate, would the Castille-Portugal union fight with France as much? I'm guessing Castille-Portugal could pull off colonizing all of South America and dominating the Indian Ocean and getting colonies in Africa, though the board seems to think they won't have as much in the Mediterrainean.
Would the Pope bother dividing up the rest of the world like he did between Spain and Portugal in OTL (with France maybe replacing Portugal), or just give it all to this world's Spain? With Aragon separate, would the Castille-Portugal union fight with France as much? I'm guessing Castille-Portugal could pull off colonizing all of South America and dominating the Indian Ocean and getting colonies in Africa, though the board seems to think they won't have as much in the Mediterrainean.
Actually, I do not really see much of an american presense with Castille being in on the Portugese route and thier conquistadors used as extra manpower on that route (a Spanish Cape perhaps?). Indeed without the Mesoamerican influx Castille is far more a junior partner here.
Columbus may sail for Navarre, France, or England and lead one or more of them to the West Indies. If that is butterflied Colonization is far slower and more haphazard, with Newfoundland and Brazil being used as dumping grounds or agricultural supply points.
HTG
With a somewhat weaker and rather less cash-flushed rival? They could either be rather stronger or considerably weaker as the North African states find themselves better able to fend off Aragon on thier own.
In Iberia? Depends on who weds what heir.
Without the influence of Castillian catholicism (and the need to hold to it lest they lose a big cash cow), they may turn Protestant rather than risk the Low Countries.
HTG
You could end with a total reverse web of alliances in the Mediterranean and Western Europe:
- Algiers as "chief of the Maghreb", refusing Turkish influence and battling Aragon on her own.
- Aragon turning Turkish-friendly instead.
- France, Castile-Portugal and Venice teaming together against Aragon and the Turks. The three would have reasons to fight Aragon, and the first two in fact intervened together in the Castilian War of Succession against Isabella and Ferdinand.
- With France and Castile-Portugal as buddies, England would go Aragon-friendly and broke the old Anglo-Portuguese alliance, which in OTL was in danger at the end of the 15th century precisely because the Franco-Portuguese approach signed above.
How would Algeria fit into this? They pushed out Turkish influence, but does that make them enemies of the Ottomans. Would they join the Venetian/Spanish/Franco alliance against England Aragon and Turkey?
I wonder if an Anglo-Aragonese alliance'll result in TTL equivalent of the Spanish Armada, but slightly earlier. What if it pulls off? Then you have one OTL colonial power fragmented with one half fused with another colonial power, another colonial power allied with it, and yet another colonial power under the fist of the first one (that's confusing. I need a nap.).
I see your point. I don't believe France or England had the religious fervor of Spain. But there isn't a big reason why Columbus should end up in Spain, if Bartolomeu Dias goes on his voyage as scheduled. It convinced King Joao II of Portugal that the eastern route was better, even though he had never thought a western route was good anyway. I do think though, that without the resources of Aragon, colonization might go a little slower, but Portugal would mostly make up for it.
It would have been called Spain. The portuguese kings were enraged when Isabel and Fernando started to use a name that they felt belonged to them as well as an inheritance of the Roman and Visigothic Hispania.
Bingo. Noone but a few crackpots thought the globe was small enough to survive a westbound journy to the Indies.
But where is said Colonization?
Not many places in the Old World that would fold like the Aztecs or Inca.
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