Windtalkers WI

[Melvin Loh]

This post is based on the premise of WINDTALKERS: WI a Navaho codetalker had actually been captured by the Japs during the Central Pacific Island fighting on a place like Saipan, then tortured to reveal the secrets of the Navaho code to his captors ? Would a captured Navaho Marine have given in under continued torture ? Had the Japs been given some insight into the code, how much would the US communications system in the Pacific been compromised, and how would the overall strategic picture have been affected ?

[NapoleonXIV]

Amerinds are probably more resistant to torture than most. In any case the Navajo language is not a code, its a language. That's why it couldn't be broken by normal cryptography. there's no plaintext to break it into, it is the plaintext. As such it takes a little longer to teach than you could get in just a few torture sessions.

It certainly wasn't the only code used in the Pacific. One difference between the Axis and the Allies that I've noticed is that the Allies tended to use several codes and change them almost constantly since they expected them to be broken. The Axis put a good deal more effort into making their codes unbreakable but then used them constantly. Considering the fate of Ultra and Enigma I guess we know which one was right.

[Fiji]

Some did get captured and some were tortured.
Problem was, the Japaneese soldier who got the job of torturing these captives was never an expert, causing too much damage to soon, killing the victim before he could talk, etc.
And the Japaneese had no way of transporting the captives to a more experienced torturer.

[Melvin Loh]

I take your point, Napoleon. However, the Navaho language was developed into its own unique code, esp in terms of combining existing Navaho words to refer to particular pieces of military technology and geographical expressions (eg 'gun that shoots fast'- machinegun, 'pregnant big fish'- troop transport, 'rolled hat'- Aust, 'crazy white man'- Adolf Hitler), so that 1 can possibly argue it evolved from being a language in itself. The Japs even went so far as to trawl among native American soldiers captured during the fall of the Philippines in order to crack the code, and I've read that there was 1 Navaho POW who was sent to 1 island and forced by his captors under torture to listen in on his comrades' transmissions (gobbledygook to the Japs), but even he couldn't understand what was being said due to the intricate nature of the code developed by the codetalkers.

Interesting aspect, Fiji, I never knew that some codetalkers fell into enemy hands in the Pacific. Could you provide me any supporting sources ?

[Tyr]

Those people they make translate stuff for them- why do they never think of just translating it wrong! They are going to be killed anyway so they may as well make a major contribution to the war effort while they are at it.

[Fiji]

Originally Posted by Melvin Loh

Interesting aspect, Fiji, I never knew that some codetalkers fell into enemy hands in the Pacific. Could you provide me any supporting sources ?

no, not really, annecdotes, incidental mentions in various text, nothing solid