Flag discussion - Alternatives to the Hammer and Sickle

The hammer and sickle was used as the symbol of communism in Russia, representing the workers (hammer) and peasants (sickle). It was an appropriate symbol for a largely agricultural country with some industry, and was (and is) also used unchanged in China.



However, it was altered for use in other countries with communist- or communist-inspired regimes, to be more appropriate for the workers' situation in those countries. Common examples are a hoe rather than a sickle in African countries, and a gearwheel to represent industry. For example.

Angola uses a machete (for peasants) and cogwheel (for industry) on its flag:

and a machete and cogwheel on its coat of arms:


Mozambique uses a cogwheel, hoe, AK-47 and book (for education)


The People's Republic of Congo used a hammer and hoe:


East Germany used a hammer for workers, a compass to represent intellectuals and another Soviet symbol, wheat, for farmers.




So, based on all this, what sort of communist symbols do you think would have been adopted in other countries? Britain, France, the US? Usually in Soviet-victory scenarios we just put hammers and sickles on everyone's flag, but in practice it seems they should really be more appropriate to the specific country's situation.

Also note that the modern British communist party, having latched onto the peace movement as a vehicle, now uses a 'hammer and dove' symbol



Suggestions?

Note that the East Germans used the kind of compass you draw circles with, not the compass that shows where North is.

Hard to find something better than a hammer - it's *the* archetypical tool, after all.

Love the hammer and the dove. I feel reminded of the GDI from the Command and Conquer series there (wait a sec... GDI and the Soviets both deploy the Mammoth Tank... that would explain a lot! )

A few more interesting ones...


Democratic Republic of Afghanistan - the text means "People".


Democratic Republic of Afghanistan again, this time combining Communism with Islamic symbols.


Korean Worker's Party (DPRK) - With three symbols: Hammer for the workers, a hoe for the peasants, and a brush for the intellectuals.

It would be *cool* with just one big hammer on the USSR flag. (Representing that true communists don't care about farmers? )

the short-lived Latvian SSR of 1917-1919 used hammer and scythe. by that time, most peasants probably had forgotten how to use sickle.

unfortunately I can't find any online picture and don't have a scanner available.

Berra said:

It would be *cool* with just one big hammer on the USSR flag. (Representing that true communists don't care about farmers? )

Click to expand...

With Molotov in Charge?

BTW I really like that Hammer and Dove Symbol.

Pretinieks said:

the short-lived Latvian SSR of 1917-1919 used hammer and scythe. by that time, most peasants probably had forgotten how to use sickle.

unfortunately I can't find any online picture and don't have a scanner available.

Click to expand...

Is this the one you're thinking of?

Well if you want to be a Christian communist how about a hammer and cross (or hammer and rosary beads for the Catholics)?

If the USA had ever gone Red, I think the CPUSA would have wanted to keep as much connection with the "acceptable" parts of American heritage as possible. Therefore, I think the Stars and Stripes would have survived unchanged, since the symbology has no particular ideological content but refers simply to the 13 original states (the stripes) and the 50 current states (the stars) (I offer Poland and Czechoslovakia as precedent; their flags never changed under Communism). However, I'm sure the Great Seal would have been changed totally, with suitable Communist symbology.

-Joe-

I've seen a Japanese one that I think depicted a cogwheel and riceplant if I'm not mistaken.

joea64 said:

If the USA had ever gone Red, I think the CPUSA would have wanted to keep as much connection with the "acceptable" parts of American heritage as possible. Therefore, I think the Stars and Stripes would have survived unchanged, since the symbology has no particular ideological content but refers simply to the 13 original states (the stripes) and the 50 current states (the stars) (I offer Poland and Czechoslovakia as precedent; their flags never changed under Communism). However, I'm sure the Great Seal would have been changed totally, with suitable Communist symbology.

-Joe-

Click to expand...

cuba also didn't change it's flag, despite the fact that it's based loosely on the flag of the US.

A hammer and scythe was used by the Danish Socialdemocratic youth movement in early 20th century (not crossed but in a "V" shape) - that was before the communists split out.

In the 1930s three parallel white arrows on red background was used (pointing down 45 degrees!?) - that was inspired by Nazi success with the svastika and communist ditto with hammer and sickle.

In the 1970s a red rose was introduced in many places as the symbol of socialism.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

Thande said:

Is this the one you're thinking of?

Click to expand...

yes. the image did not really stabilize during those few years - I've seen also mirror images of this and so on.
this one displays scythe without handles, probably in an effort to appeal to all regions of Latvia. (even now, scythes used in Vidzeme have T-shaped lower handle, in contrast to simple handle in Kurzeme and V-shaped one in Latgale) (not that they're used extensively but most rural people still have one)

Thande said:

So, based on all this, what sort of communist symbols do you think would have been adopted in other countries? Britain, France, the US?

Click to expand...

French? Le drapeau Rouge. Just plain Red Flag.

That was the flag of numerous french revolution, including the Commune. Indeed, it may have become the official flag of the second french republic in 1848, were it not for Lamartine's speech to the Mob ( 'Le drapeau tricolore a fait la tour du monde, avec nos gloires et nos libertées; Le drapeau rouge n'a fait que le tour du Champ de Mars, baigné dans le sang du peuple' )

joea64 said:

If the USA had ever gone Red, I think the CPUSA would have wanted to keep as much connection with the "acceptable" parts of American heritage as possible. Therefore, I think the Stars and Stripes would have survived unchanged, since the symbology has no particular ideological content but refers simply to the 13 original states (the stripes) and the 50 current states (the stars) [...]
-Joe-

Click to expand...

Sth I found in another part of the board:

How about using the CPUSA's logo to the US flag?

Another Idea

Here's an alternate flag I made for my Communist nation in a timeline of mine. Situated in the Midwest / Great Lakes region, it combines farming (wheat and plow) with industry (gear and hammer). It's a little complicated, but it's different (besides, I didn't want to use the hammer and sickle...)

This is a flag in present usage for a Maryland locale, but it could be used as a Communist flag:

May I ask which locality?