DBWI: WI President Churchill... had been raised British?

[Dean_the_Young]

Sort of the title. Everyone knows that President Churchill was born with a foot on each side of the pond, so to speak, and that for a while his mother had considered moving to Britain to raise him. But, of course, his well-connected British father for one reason or another ended up remainong stateside as a very successful businessman with good connections both on the East Coast and in Britain, connections which served our president well.

But what kind of enormous butterflies would we see without President Churchill at a time like the Decade of Darkness, as he called it? His foreign policy alone, in Central America and Asia as well as Europe...

[Douglas]

Well you'll have to split the Decade of Darkness from his ill-advised adventures in Colombia and China for sure. It's amazing how similar the idiotic colonialism of his 1914-1917 presidency was to his dictatorial leadership in 1949-1961. With no disastrous two-ocean war against Germany and Japan, the USN might have played a valuable part in the First Great War, perhaps even giving the Entente a victory? Needless to say it was (however indirectly) the isolationism caused by the military disasters of 1916 which led to the Second Great War, its horrific ChemWar conclusion, and the chaos which Churchill somehow manages to get credit for getting us through, when full economic recovery didn't come until the early 1970s after the Democrats regained control of the presidency.

Perhaps we have computers in every home by now? Widespread nuclear power? Churchill would've been better off going to England and being a nondescript lisping MP there...our world would've been much better.

[Keenir]

Originally Posted by fenkmaster

Well you'll have to split the Decade of Darkness from his ill-advised adventures in Colombia and China for sure. It's amazing how similar the idiotic colonialism of his 1914-1917 presidency was to his dictatorial leadership in 1949-1961

given then the number of home-grown terrors we had all around the US and American possessions, a firm hand is to be expected from the government.

when full economic recovery didn't come until the early 1970s after the Democrats regained control of the presidency.

the economy was already recovering. its only Democratic spin that makes some people falsely believe that only the Democrats are good for the economy.

Perhaps we have computers in every home by now?

we already do...ever try to program your household appliances?

Widespread nuclear power? Churchill would've been better off going to England and being a nondescript lisping MP there...our world would've been much better.

how could it have been better? our country has only had two Presidents who were elected to the White House thrice, and Churchill was one of those. (if not him, then who would stretch out the hand of friendship to Prime Minister Thatcher?* and who would have swayed Mao and Pol Pot to the virtues of capitalism?)


* = dear God, please don't suggest you think the Kennedy-Nixon ticket would actually win. *shudders*

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Keenir

given then the number of home-grown terrors we had all around the US and American possessions, a firm hand is to be expected from the government.

Starting a war with two Great Powers, and losing a good 75% of the entire navy at Taipei and Maracaibo was what I was referring to, not to the Socialists, Filipinos, Cubans, Congolese, Samoans, etc. Although if Bryan had won re-election in 1904, we would've been spared the imperialist mess that had to be cleaned up by him from 1917-1925.

the economy was already recovering. its only Democratic spin that makes some people falsely believe that only the Democrats are good for the economy.

Yes, but the bulk of the improvement was made by the Lodge administration after "Churchillonomics" left us with a huge national debt which we are still paying off.

we already do...ever try to program your household appliances?

I meant a computer that can have its hardware exchanged so that you can manipulate what you want it to do, rather than something that is programmed by some African to do one specific thing. Imagine computers linked up together: then we wouldn't have this conversation on the vid-phones.

how could it have been better? our country has only had two Presidents who were elected to the White House thrice, and Churchill was one of those. (if not him, then who would stretch out the hand of friendship to Prime Minister Thatcher?* and who would have swayed Mao and Pol Pot to the virtues of capitalism?)

Length of service does not make up for failings. And if you want an example of a good three-term president, I would much rather you go to Bryan, who kept us out of an imperialist war during his first term in 1897-1901 (something Hanna couldn't do), and then nationalized the rail systems and implemented the "Great Society" in his next two terms which made America's planned economy the envy of the world until that incompetent fool Thurmond decided to exchange chemical missiles with Germany over Palestine of all places. Geez, Thurmond really was our worst president, if only because his actions led to a Republican return to the presidency and the accompanying twenty years of economic buffoonery cum toadying up to Fascists like Mao and Pol Pot, while spreading rampant capitalism instead of the successful controlled economy which Bryan pioneered.

And don't even get me started on Thatcher...why we ever funded that crazy warmongering b****'s adventures in South Africa and the Crimea is beyond me.

* = dear God, please don't suggest you think the Kennedy-Nixon ticket would actually win. *shudders*

No, I don't, and I don't even think they would've done well. Unfortunately, America will never elect a Catholic president. The Kennedy brothers were as close as any could get (even though Joseph's ticket with that loathsome Nixon was destroyed by Stevenson in '60, his younger brother John won the popular vote against Stevenson in '64 by two percent, and helped pave the way for Lodge to win in '68).

EDIT: I also forgot to credit Bryan with giving independence to the Philippines, Cuba, and Kinshasa, which are all significant economic, if not military, powers today.

[Keenir]

Originally Posted by fenkmaster

Starting a war with two Great Powers, and losing a good 75% of the entire navy at Taipei and Maracaibo was what I was referring to, not to the Socialists, Filipinos, Cubans, Congolese, Samoans, etc.

actually, I was referring to the anarchists and communists and hippies in the Lower 48 States.

Yes, but the bulk of the improvement was made by the Lodge administration after "Churchillonomics" left us with a huge national debt which we are still paying off.

a debt, yes, but also the foundation for what the Lodge administration built upon...without Churchill, Lodge would've floundered.
(which Lodge started to do anyway, even with Churchill)

I meant a computer that can have its hardware exchanged so that you can manipulate what you want it to do, rather than something that is programmed by some African to do one specific thing. Imagine computers linked up together: then we wouldn't have this conversation on the vid-phones.

you'd give up vid-phones and all our modern technologies, just to have a...what would you call it? an intercomputer?

and how would you cook food on this intercomputer?

Length of service does not make up for failings. And if you want an example of a good three-term president, I would much rather you go to Bryan,

I think it was his second term (right?) that had Bryan starting the term as VP, then rising to President...so he doesn't really count as a 3-term.

the accompanying twenty years of economic buffoonery cum toadying up to Fascists like Mao and Pol Pot,

Read the biographies and archives....appearantly, before President Churchill talked him out of it, Mao was planning something called the "Great Leap Forwards".

and without "rampant capitalism", Pol Pot might've actually gone ahead with his threat of establishing Year Zero!

while spreading rampant capitalism instead of the successful controlled economy which Bryan pioneered.

oh dear God, don't tell me you're a Singaporist.

(ooc: slang term for someone who advocates using the controlled systems of Singapore on far larger nations)

And don't even get me started on Thatcher...why we ever funded that crazy warmongering b****'s adventures in South Africa and the Crimea is beyond me.

not the son, the mother. some of us do distinguish the two of them, ya know.