Alternate States and provinces.

AuroraBorealis · Jul 22, 2007

Map Possible or no, circa 2007
major departures:
Charles IV is more like his father and Grandfather...Floridablanca does not fall from power in spain in the late 18thC and will see Spain through the French Revolutionary period.

Patriot/Tory violence is more pronounced in the pre-revolutionary period. The sides are more polarized resulting in a slightly different ARW and Treaty of Paris, though in this TL it is Treaty of Madrid

Britain retains North New York and Vermont, Georgia, S. Carolina and W. Florida initially.

Stronger migration of loyalists (300,000 or about 1/3 of the estimated Tory support)

Napoleon is assassinated in the plot of the Rue Saint-Nicaise ( A. Massena or Lucien Bonaparte join the triumvirate of the Consulate (Haven't decided Which)
Instead of Napoleonic Imperial Wars, we have the French Consular Wars ending in about 1811 with the Treaty of Luxembourg. The consulate survives with Napoleon's 1805 boundaries. The Bourbon's are exiled. Louis the 18th will have his residence in London until he dies. The Comte d'Artois will receive a title from the Spanish, guaranteed by Britain, I let you speculate on what that might be.

Any thoughts on the course of events in the Americas?

Wendell · Jul 22, 2007

The borders of Nunavut existing as they do in just about any other TL seems reallyunlikely to me. Also, still having both Indiana and Illinois as well as both Mississippi and Alabama seems really unlikely to me. Also, you moveed the capital of Panama

AuroraBorealis · Jul 23, 2007

Wendell said:
The borders of Nunavut existing as they do in just about any other TL seems reallyunlikely to me. Also, still having both Indiana and Illinois as well as both Mississippi and Alabama seems really unlikely to me. Also, you moveed the capital of Panama

Actually since the borders of Nunavut are somewhat ethnically based...Inuit vs Dene Its entirely possible that they still could result..though your right it may not...

As to Indiana and Illinois..though one is correct...Illinois is I am thinking Kaskaskia Instead since the majority of the Illinois valley is in the northern District that is part of this TL Canada. Tentatively Charlottiana, or maybe Br. Illinois>I was thinking to keep them combined, as a single Indiana but since the initial borders are actually further north at the 41 parallel, then they could very well have been still separated by about 1820. The border will drop later during the 1830's.

Alabama and Mississippi border is not exactly the same In the north at the same point but runs directly south on that meridian instead. Splitting the early settlements/ plantations along the Mississippi from those on the Alabama River.

Panama is actually Costa Rica ( they are combined as a single state with power devolved slowly from Spain over the course of the 19th C.) the Capital is thus more central at Santiago. Though I did think that San Jose might still have resulted as the National capital. I might still have to revise that though I think...as I am not sure I will go with the Nicaragua or Panama canals in this scenario.

Florida is also linked to Cuba as a combined state. Cuba y Florida.

Solomaxwell6 · Jul 23, 2007

Albany as the capital of a Northeastern nation?

Love it. =)

AuroraBorealis · Jul 23, 2007

Solomaxwell6 said:
Albany as the capital of a Northeastern nation?

Love it. =)

It seemed appropriate at the time...Think of an Albany Convention analogy to the Hartford Convention ( that does not occur this time around, the Federalists remain a political power much longer in the USA). The Albany Convention will occur during the '30's.

Dan1988 · Jul 23, 2007

Problem. IIRC, John Smith put Nova Scotia in with "New England". Thus, that would put Nova Scotia with the nation with Albany as its capital, and by association this would also mean New Brunswick (as Sunbury County).

Wendell · Jul 23, 2007

AuroraBorealis said:
Actually since the borders of Nunavut are somewhat ethnically based...Inuit vs Dene Its entirely possible that they still could result..though your right it may not...

As to Indiana and Illinois..though one is correct...Illinois is I am thinking Kaskaskia Instead since the majority of the Illinois valley is in the northern District that is part of this TL Canada. Tentatively Charlottiana, or maybe Br. Illinois>I was thinking to keep them combined, as a single Indiana but since the initial borders are actually further north at the 41 parallel, then they could very well have been still separated by about 1820. The border will drop later during the 1830's.

Alabama and Mississippi border is not exactly the same In the north at the same point but runs directly south on that meridian instead. Splitting the early settlements/ plantations along the Mississippi from those on the Alabama River.

Panama is actually Costa Rica ( they are combined as a single state with power devolved slowly from Spain over the course of the 19th C.) the Capital is thus more central at Santiago. Though I did think that San Jose might still have resulted as the National capital. I might still have to revise that though I think...as I am not sure I will go with the Nicaragua or Panama canals in this scenario.

Florida is also linked to Cuba as a combined state. Cuba y Florida.

How about calling Indiana-Illinois Vandalia?

AuroraBorealis · Jul 24, 2007

Dan1988 said:
Problem. IIRC, John Smith put Nova Scotia in with "New England". Thus, that would put Nova Scotia with the nation with Albany as its capital, and by association this would also mean New Brunswick (as Sunbury County).

Nova Scotia, Cape Breton, Sunbury and the St. John Valley will as with OTL be a destination for Loyalist migrants, thus they will not be with the New England Federal Republic. NS, NB, PEI and CBI will still be Crown colonies of Britain when the New England (Federal Rep. of) is formed. Or maybe Federated Commonwealth of....

AuroraBorealis · Jul 24, 2007

Wendell said:
How about calling Indiana-Illinois Vandalia?

Indiana and Illinois will still evolve as two states me thinks....
Settlement OTL resulted in two states by 1820 most living in the southern reachs along the Ohio Valley. There is no reason to think that they still would not if the northern border is initially further north at the 41st parallel west of Connecticut's Western Reserve. Historically these are the "Ohio country" and the "Illinois country". I was thinking to stick with that same theme for now. Thus, those states beyond the Ohio are tentatively Cleveland, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois ( though I am still thinking to revert that to Kaskaskia after the primary river through the centre of the state, though it is a bit of a mouthful)

Vandalia might be an alternative though for say Ohio. In which case maybe resurrecting some of the proposed names for states in the "old northwest" for the other two might be in order. I am going to have to have another look at those.