No Cold War

Xen

Banned
A prelude to something Ive been working on to avoid the Cold War, its not finished yet, but I am working on a timeline for this so please be patient with me.

Prelude:

The Cold War in my honest opinion is probably the most wasteful event in human history, how many trillions of dollars did the two superpowers spend trying to prevent the other from gaining the upper hand? How much better could the world be if this money was spent on something more useful, such as education, health care and infrastructure both domestically and internationally? But how does one avoid a Cold War when you have two powerful nations, each having capable and well armed military, different political and economical philosophies, and an interest in spreading said philosophy to the world?

I have done a little research into the origins of the Cold War, and though the rivalry between the United States and Russia stretches well beyond the Bolshevik Revolution, World War II is the catalyst that allowed such an event to happen, but it could have been avoided on such a large scale, and while it is hard to see either Super Power backing from their position, the Soviet Union was actually more flexible to change this status than the Americans.

In OTL, Stalin’s economic advisors informed him the United States could not continue to keep up with its wartime production, along with returning unemployed soldiers looking for employment would wreak havoc on the American economy creating a second Great Depression. He was also advised the American government to avoid this would give massive amounts of aid to the Soviet Union. Stalin in 1945 was more concerned with the rearmament of Germany and Japan than the threat the United States, Great Britain and France could impose, and was a supporter of the Morgenthau Plan.

What seemed to touch the Cold War off was how to shape post-war Europe, since the times of Napoleon, Russia had suffered numerous and costly invasions from the west, obviously Stalin wanted to create a buffer on the western front to prevent such events from happening again. The United States for its part stood to make a major financial gain by rebuilding Europe with an economically healthy Germany at its center, Stalin would not stand for this and coupled with other events created East Germany.

For the sake of the timeline let us assume the United States and Soviet Union come to some sort of an accord, prior to the war Stalin was more concerned with internal security rather than a World Revolution as proposed by Trotsky, one can understand where World War II would shake this view to its very core, but let us suppose rather than installing Communist puppets in Eastern Europe, Stalin decides to allow the nations of Eastern Europe to have any form of government they desire but under the condition the Soviet Union will be allowed to keep military bases on their soil, in particularly in Poland and Romania, the Soviets will also maintain a Naval Base in Bulgaria, an Air Force Base in Hungary and Czechoslovakia, and of course a couple of military facilities in Germany along side their war time allies. The entire province of East Prussia is annexed into the Soviet Union, as is the Baltic States, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia. The west does not press the issue of the Baltic States. Like the United States bases in Britain, Germany and Japan, the Soviet military will not interfere with domestic politics and foreign affairs.

As for Germany, original plans called for the country to be divided into two parts a north and a south, however in OTL this became East and West, in this timeline Germany is divided along with original plans, but the split goes even further than originally attended, South Germany is divided between Bavaria and Rhineland. The United States and Soviet Union both maintain military facilities in northern Germany. Bavaria will most likely restore the monarchy, northern Germany could possibly restore its monarchy as well. Germany is allowed to have a small military for purposes of defense only, but is constitutionally forbidden from entering into military alliances, neither is Germany allowed to build any military grade weapons and must purchase them from a foreign power.

Western Europe develops similarly to OTL, but the real winner is Central and Eastern Europe. Czechoslovakia develops into a wealthy industrial nation and already has a democratic tradition which is resumed in the postwar years. Poland benefited from loans from the United States as well as western investors eager to prove the benefits of capitalism to communist Russia. Likewise Romania received less, but a great amount of investment from the west causing the standards of living to soar in both nations.

Hungarians voted to restore the Hapsburg monarchy in 1947 and developed in parallel to Austria and Czechoslovakia; though was always sucking hind-tit to its neighbors. Bulgaria didn’t experience an economic boom like much of the rest of Europe, the monarchy was retained but as a constitutional monarchy. However many wealthy Westerners bought property along the beach front and in the interior claiming beautiful unspoiled views of the country side. Bulgaria spent the post-war years playing catch up to the west, and like Hungary continues to lag behind but enjoys much improved standards of living.

Spain, Portugal and Yugoslavia are the problem children of Europe, Yugoslavia is barely held together by Tito but experiences great economic growth. Spain continues to dwell in poverty by practicing autarky which leads to student riots in the late 1950s and early 1960s. The students are soon joined by workers and an army of the unemployed, the Spanish Army is deployed to prevent the nation from breaking out into Civil War, but after years of martial law riots break out in Toledo, Barcelona and Madrid resulting in the Second Spanish Civil War. This causes concern among Europeans, it is also a golden opportunity to open Spain up for investment, and simply put the wheels of economy drive an alliance between Italy, France and the United Kingdom to involve itself in the Spanish Conflict. The Spanish Army is no match for the alliance and is annihilated. The birth of the Third Republic of Spain is, which receives massive amount of aid from the west, and begins its long journey from dictatorship to democracy.

Portugal follows a similar route as OTL, however the Spanish riots and the resulting invasion by the Franco-Italian-British Alliance sends Portugal on a different path. Salazar begins to “liberalize” his government in the mid 1960s, finally decreeing upon his death Portugal will become a monarchy again.
 
First and foremost.. the split between russia and the west begins following the revolution and the massive red scares.. and the cry for international revolution that began to spring up around europe and other parts of the world.. the changing of the guard .. so that by the end of the russian civil war.. russia no longer trusts the west since the reds won and the whites lost who the west backed. now i will grant you that russia wanted a large buffer zone after WWII .. of course the whole country is a buffer zone.. the problem being the russians simply didnt think the west would sit and not move forward to moscow.. the fear was real.. America with the bomb, Pattno and Macarthur wanting to keep rolling..

the Cold war would be avoidable if you..
1 Remove Stalin and put someone a bit more calm in his place..
2. Have the west be non threatning and last but not least
3. have both East and West meet in the middle with techology sharing and information sharing.. .. there was no grounds for trust between the two parties
 

HurganPL

Banned
What seemed to touch the Cold War off was how to shape post-war Europe, since the times of Napoleon, Russia had suffered numerous and costly invasions from the west
Actually Russia has constantly invaded other countries and suffered attempts to take back the territory it conquered.
None of the wars till WW2 involved main Russian area. And even in WW2 the main Russian area wasn't invaded much but rather Ukraine, Belarus.
The reasons for CW was Russian imperialism using cover of communism as leading ideology.
Stalin decides to allow the nations of Eastern Europe to have any form of government they desire but under the condition the Soviet Union will be allowed to keep military bases on their soil,
Soviets have been murdering Allied soldiers throughout the whole war as well as Allied politicians. See no reason why should they suddenly stop, especially as they intensified those operations in 1944.
 
My reading is that the key problems were Stalin and Poland.

Poland had been the West's ally. It also had millions of migrant voters living in the US.


After the events of 1939-41 there is no way that any even vaguely legitimate government would not be deeply suspicous of the Soviet Union.

However remember that the monolith of the 50s was not how Eastern Europe started.

In Czechoslovakia Communists were the largest party after pretty honest elections just after the war. Remember too that Rumania and Hungary had not only not been democracies pre 1939 but also they were active allies of Hitler.

A Soviet leadership preventing such nations becoming hostile would have been accepted by moderate opinion.

The trick would have been on the one hand to 'Finalandize' Poland and on the other to let the Soviet Union have all of Berlin.


However we still have Korea and Indo China and, well, China??
 
I'd agree with 1.) Someone Else Than Stalin

or

2.) Germany does better against the Soviets, and Russia is battered so badly it is not seen as a major threat after the war.

Either 1, 2 or both. Honestly, with a paranoid bastard like Stalin in occupation of Eastern Europe, a Cold War type situation is pretty much inevitable. No way he's going to go for Eastern European regimes that are anything but closely controlled puppets, not with the US atom-armed and right next door, not when keeping Germany down and out for good is an imperative. Mao and co. really don't help, either. Some possibilities do open after his death, but by then the Cold War is well under way.

Bruce
 
I honestly reckon that the Cold War wasn't Capitalism vs. Communism. The conflict was bred out of two super powers in conflict with each other. The ideologies were there as a difference but it was really not much different to the power plays of the colonial powers in the 19th cemtury.
 
Actually Russia has constantly invaded other countries and suffered attempts to take back the territory it conquered.
None of the wars till WW2 involved main Russian area. And even in WW2 the main Russian area wasn't invaded much but rather Ukraine, Belarus.
The reasons for CW was Russian imperialism using cover of communism as leading ideology.

Soviets have been murdering Allied soldiers throughout the whole war as well as Allied politicians. See no reason why should they suddenly stop, especially as they intensified those operations in 1944.

I take it you don't like Russia?
 
I honestly reckon that the Cold War wasn't Capitalism vs. Communism. The conflict was bred out of two super powers in conflict with each other. The ideologies were there as a difference but it was really not much different to the power plays of the colonial powers in the 19th cemtury.


"The power plays of the 19th century" did not involve running up massive nuclear arsenals to the point where all human life in the northern hemisphere was under threat. Both the US and USSR were giant countries with enormous resources: there's no German or Japanese notion of "expand or perish." Neither were neighbors, and there was no historical conflict between them. The era of colonial expansion was over. If both were capitalist countries, what on earth could lead to such a desperate competition?

(P.S. - beside the ideology, there was the whole "brutal dictatorship" thing, which the ideology - and the conflict - supported and maintained.)

Bruce
 

Cherico

Banned
"The power plays of the 19th century" did not involve running up massive nuclear arsenals to the point where all human life in the northern hemisphere was under threat. Both the US and USSR were giant countries with enormous resources: there's no German or Japanese notion of "expand or perish." Neither were neighbors, and there was no historical conflict between them. The era of colonial expansion was over. If both were capitalist countries, what on earth could lead to such a desperate competition?

(P.S. - beside the ideology, there was the whole "brutal dictatorship" thing, which the ideology - and the conflict - supported and maintained.)

Bruce

Power polatics if you have two great powers in a environment where
they are both contesting for hegmony they will have a cold war no matter
how similear or disimilar their governments are.
 
Power polatics if you have two great powers in a environment where
they are both contesting for hegmony they will have a cold war no matter
how similear or disimilar their governments are.

If they're not driven by ideology, why should they bother to contest for hegemony? Hegemony, as we're finding out in Iraq, is a lot of work.

Bruce

P.S. - you also can have ideological conflicts even if - indeed, especially if - the governments are similar. Two Communist countries arguing over who holds the True Faith Of Marx. Two Fascist countries with rather different notions over who the "inferior" race is. (It was convenient for the Nazis and Japanese that they were seperated by the USSR and all of Asia).
 
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