A New Coat of Arms Thread

[Susano]

Originally Posted by Hapsburg

Wow. That's the first time I've ever seen a heraldic flamingo.

Hm, I wanted to correct you, but the way its drawn, nicely simple, it does even rather look like a heraldic than a naturalistic figure. Of course, it needs to have another colour than pink, like - well, anything thats not naturalistic

Oh, pish. The "rules" of heraldry are more like guidelines, anyway.

To a degree yes. Tincture not on tincture etc are all just guidelines. But making the CoA appear like goddamn pictures, or having senseless unjustified quartering, or using shades of colours - all which happens in American "arms" - thats definitly unheraldic.

[False Dmitri]

Originally Posted by Susano

To a degree yes. Tincture not on tincture etc are all just guidelines. But making the CoA appear like goddamn pictures, or having senseless unjustified quartering, or using shades of colours - all which happens in American "arms" - thats definitly unheraldic.

Oh, you were talking about our local and state arms. Yes, they're a mess for the reasons you described. I feel the same way about New Zealand's national arms.

[False Dmitri]

Nobody posts Japanese mon. That changes now.

This is for my fictional Easter Island. It's part of Ill Bethisad, which strictly speaking isn't alternate history, but nevertheless. Easter Island (Henua) was a Japanese protectorate for 40 years (1876-1919) and an economic satellite basically to the present day, so it picked up a lot of Japanese culture. The word kamono comes from Japanese kamon, family badge. A fuller description of how the kamono are used can be found here: http://sites.google.com/site/ibhenua/culture/heraldry.

These are cleaned-up scans of hand drawings. I had these hand drawings, and this was much easier than tying to duplicate them graphically.

Finally I should add that these are typical examples, not a comprehensive list. I don't even know the names of the families that use several of these badges.

[Maharajah]

The arms of the Empire of Septimania, in NG: Colonization II in the Shared Worlds forum. (I advise you to join!)

[euio]

Wow that's awesome.

Occitania type thing?

[Maharajah]

Originally Posted by euio

Wow that's awesome.

Occitania type thing?

Thanks!

And yes, the region of Septimania is in far southern France in Occitania along the Mediterranean coast, which is why it uses the Occitan crosses in its arms.

[Ofaloaf]

Originally Posted by Maharajah

Thanks!

And yes, the region of Septimania is in far southern France in Occitania along the Mediterranean coast, which is why it uses the Occitan crosses in its arms.

Septimania, near Occitania? What, are there other regions nearby called Augustania and Juliania?

[False Dmitri]

Occitania's not a Roman name. At most it's late medieval/early modern; some things say the name's no older than the 19th century. It comes from the local word for yes (oc).

[Coyote Knight]

Here's the Coat of Arms of Canada in my timeline in the year 2033. Only some subtle changes, but definitely more "Canadian".

[False Dmitri]

Originally Posted by Canadian Federation

Here's the Coat of Arms of Canada in my timeline in the year 2033. Only some subtle changes, but definitely more "Canadian".

All I can spot are a leaf instead of a crown and a badger instead of an English lion. Is that little leaf decoration on the helm new as well?

The Canadian arms are really neat looking, but they always make me a little sad. Almost 100% of its elements are taken from the arms of various other countries, with nothing to show any sort of national pride or uniqueness other than a leaf here and a leaf there. Again, they are still really very cool looking.

Here's another scan (if it's completely uncouth to keep doing that, just tell me to stop). No AH for this; in fact, it's sort of a hypothetical COA for myself to assume as burgher arms. It's a 2nd draft; the third one, assuming I make it, will be neater and possibly done on the computer, I don't know.

[Maharajah]

Originally Posted by Benkarnell

All I can spot are a leaf instead of a crown and a badger instead of an English lion. Is that little leaf decoration on the helm new as well?

The Canadian arms are really neat looking, but they always make me a little sad. Almost 100% of its elements are taken from the arms of various other countries, with nothing to show any sort of national pride or uniqueness other than a leaf here and a leaf there. Again, they are still really very cool looking.

Here's another scan (if it's completely uncouth to keep doing that, just tell me to stop). No AH for this; in fact, it's sort of a hypothetical COA for myself to assume as burgher arms. It's a 2nd draft; the third one, assuming I make it, will be neater and possibly done on the computer, I don't know.

Oooh! That's very good. I used to be all worried about registering my arms and stuff, but then I realized that throughout European history, anyone could assume any arms they wanted as long as it wasn't used by another person or group already. But now I can't decide on what arms to assume....

[Susano]

Re Canada: Well thats how arms work. A territory gets one quarter - ONE quarter, nothing more. I find unjsutifiedly quartered arms to be the most terribly thing in heraldics out there. In the case of the Canadian CoA, the Canadian field is the lower half, of course, with the upper half representing its association with the UK and France. For a North American CoA, this means its actually a good one

[Maharajah]

Originally Posted by Susano

Re Canada: Well thats how arms work. A territory gets one quarter - ONE quarter, nothing more. I find unjsutifiedly quartered arms to be the most terribly thing in heraldics out there. In the case of the Canadian CoA, the Canadian field is the lower half, of course, with the upper half representing its association with the UK and France. For a North American CoA, this means its actually a good one

Actually, I'm pretty sure that most of the "quarterings" in the Latin American coats of arms can be considered divisions of the field, since most do not break the rule of tincture, and with the ones that do, there are usually three divisions, meaning that the rule has to be broken.

[Susano]

Originally Posted by Maharajah

Actually, I'm pretty sure that most of the "quarterings" in the Latin American coats of arms can be considered divisions of the field, since most do not break the rule of tincture, and with the ones that do, there are usually three divisions, meaning that the rule has to be broken.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...
And too complicated CoAs/fields are bad and unheraldic all on their own, as far as Im concerned, so it doesnt matter greatly.

And it snot just Latin America, its Africa and basically all former UK colonies (and the remaining UK holdings), too.

Though, on the question of tinctures, I have a question - Red can also be copper, after all, which is why green-red or blue-red combinations are allowed. So, can red be considered red and copper at the same time? This way three-divisions like that would be okay at least as far as that rule is concerned...

[False Dmitri]

And black/sable can occasionally be understood as a fur, I've read someplace, which is why it can be justified next to a color. I agree that Canada's is a right proper piece of heraldry... but I also think it shows a certain eagerness to please and not a lot of local pride. They theoretically could have done without the quarters and just used a simple shield representing Canada itself, representing its heritages with the other elements in the achievement. But again, it was made for a purpose that I'm sure suits the country; and it also is attractive and heraldically correct.

[Maharajah]

Well, while we're talking about tinctures, I read that pupure/purple, when used as a distinct tincture, is considered ambiguous and can function as either a metal or a color.

[Susano]

Yes, but the question is can they at the same time be red and copper, or metal purple and colour purple? I mean, due to the ambigious nature of red, both gold-red and green-red works, but would gold-red-green work, too?

And, oh, yes, fur. I forgot about that category, as its so rare. I guess its also "no fur on fur" but open to combination with either metal or colour? But personally, I have never heard about black being acceptable enxt to a colour, and considering heraldic green and blue are dark shades it makes sense not to put black next to them, Id say...

[Maharajah]

Originally Posted by Susano

Yes, but the question is can they at the same time be red and copper, or metal purple and colour purple? I mean, due to the ambigious nature of red, both gold-red and green-red works, but would gold-red-green work, too?

And, oh, yes, fur. I forgot about that category, as its so rare. I guess its also "no fur on fur" but open to combination with either metal or colour? But personally, I have never heard about black being acceptable enxt to a colour, and considering heraldic green and blue are dark shades it makes sense not to put black next to them, Id say...

Actually, as far as I know, you can put fur on fur. And the business about black being considered a fur and being able to put it on a color...I'm pretty sure that's only in some regions southern and eastern Europe, and then only sometimes. Like with Albania.

But if I'm not mistaken, there are examples of black on red in northern and western Europe. But that takes us back to the red as a color or metal thing...

EDIT: Maybe one of them was the arms of Bern? *Goes to check* Agh, no, those sneaky Swiss put their bear on a bend...

[False Dmitri]

Originally Posted by Maharajah

Actually, as far as I know, you can put fur on fur. And the business about black being considered a fur and being able to put it on a color...I'm pretty sure that's only in some regions southern and eastern Europe, and then only sometimes. Like with Albania.

But if I'm not mistaken, there are examples of black on red in northern and western Europe. But that takes us back to the red as a color or metal thing...

EDIT: Maybe one of them was the arms of Bern? *Goes to check* Agh, no, those sneaky Swiss put their bear on a bend...

I'm looking around for black-on-red arms. I feel like I've seen some black-on-green ones also. No luck so far, so maybe you're right.

Here's the blazon for my maybe-arms. Corrections are appreciated. As for the arms themselves, I like the shield, but I'm not sure about the crest.

Gyronny gules and Or a cross engrailed countercharged, the helm mantled gules doubled and tassled Or, atop a wreath of the colors a hand proper holding an open book covered sable inscribed with the words O SAPIENTIA and marked with a ribbon per fess gules and sable tasseled Or.

[Maharajah]

Originally Posted by Benkarnell

I'm looking around for black-on-red arms. I feel like I've seen some black-on-green ones also. No luck so far, so maybe you're right.

Here's the blazon for my maybe-arms. Corrections are appreciated. As for the arms themselves, I like the shield, but I'm not sure about the crest.

Gyronny gules and Or a cross engrailed countercharged, the helm mantled gules doubled and tassled Or, atop a wreath of the colors a hand proper holding an open book covered sable inscribed with the words O SAPIENTIA and marked with a ribbon per fess gules and sable tasseled Or.

Brilliant! I'm not very good at blazoning, you see. It would take a lot of work for me to write a description like that!