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Old June 12th, 2007, 11:08 PM
MrP MrP is offline
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Pour le coeur

Je veux qu'on soit sincère , et qu'en homme d'honneur
On ne lâche aucun mot qui ne parte du coeur.

I would have people be sincere, and that, like men of honour, no word be spoken that comes not from the heart.
.

Molière, LE MISANTHROPE

France, despite bravery, intelligence, vigour and natural defences, was sadly ruined by the Great War. She lost the flower of her army in the opening stages; she was famously ill-equipped with a suitable mixture of artillery; her largest warships were obsolete even as they were laid down; her generals learned the wrong lessons from the Russo-Japanese War. So many mistakes were made. These mistakes were not inevitable.

Hotel Brighton, Paris, Summer, 1904:

It had been a warm, sunny day in Paris. Jean-Michel, the clerk at the desk, was almost at the end of his long dull shift, and was looking forward to seeing his fiancée. He doodled a little sketch of her on a piece of the hotel’s stationery with a fond smile. Then a man coughed – oddly muffled. Jean-Michel looked up and almost started in alarm. The man before him had thick bandages covering his face, while his eyes were obscured by thick-rimmed dark glasses. A heavy, unseasonably stifling grey coat, expensive brown leather gloves and an ugly scarf completed the man’s appearance. Jean-Michel controlled himself. “Good evening, sir. Welcome to the Hotel
Brighton. How may I help you?”

The figure coughed in a sickly fashion. “Good evening. I am M. Dubois. I am here to meet my old and dear friend, M. Lacoste. He informed me that he would be present here at this time. Could you please verify this for me?” He spoke in a rasping guttural voice, as if his throat had been ruined. Jean-Michel couldn’t tell for certain, but the man’s odd manner of speech made him suspect that he was a foreigner.

“Certainly, sir. I shall have the boy inform him of your arrival.” Jean-Michel was back in control of himself. He gestured to little Pierre, gave him the message, and sent him to M. Lacoste’s room. The clerk now felt sorry for the gentleman before him. He could not comment on the gentleman’s appearance, for that would be most rude, but he felt sympathetic for the poor man. “Would you care to take a seat in the salon while you wait for your friend, sir? Perhaps I could have a drink brought out to you. It has been rather warm today.”

The man grunted angrily, and for a moment Jean-Michel feared he had over-stepped himself, and this M. Dubois would demand to see the manager. Then he barked. Or laughed. It was a healthy laugh. One quite at odds with his appearance - and his voice. Indeed, he too seemed to realise this. Dubois stopped abruptly. Jean-Michel maintained a carefully neutral face. Then coughing. Heavy false-sounding coughing. Jean-Michel helped the man to a seat. He went to fetch a glass of water from the kitchen, but when he returned the man was gone.

However, the boy had returned. “Pierre,” the clerk beckoned him, “what happened to the gentleman in the bandages?”

The boy was excited and smiling, “His friend came with me, sir, when I informed him. He seemed very relieved when I told him. He gave me three Francs! They went straight to M. Lacoste’s room to talk, I think.”

Jean-Michel was puzzled. But he thanked Pierre, and sent him away. He saw no more of either Dubois or Lacoste in the remaining twenty minutes of his shift, and the next day M. Lacoste left early in the morning. Jean-Michel never did know what had happened, and in the company of his darling Aurélie that night he quite forgot about it.

Intelligence Report


Quote:
12 September, 1904
From: Agent Lacoste
To: M. Dupuy, Director

Sir, I have been contacted by a general officer of the German military, who is in financial difficulty. He goes to great lengths to disguise his appearance, swathing himself in bandages. I have not been able as yet to identify him. However, he terms himself “The Avenger” and has offered to provide us with details of Germany’s plans in the event of war with France. So far he appears genuine. The initial information, which he assures me he will support with further evidence, indicates that it is in the north that we should prepare for a German attack. We should prepare to face the enemy in Belgium. I shall endeavour to pass this information to you with the greatest haste so that you may apprise the Minister of War . . .
Quote:
12 November, 1907
From: Agent Lacoste
To: M. Crais, Director

Sir, “The Avenger” has provided us with yet more details of Germany’s plans in the event of war. Not only do we have approximate locations for two of the German armies, but the Germans appear to be planning to mobilise their Reserve divisions and use them as front line divisions! I know that this may seem to be impossible, given their lesser equipment and training, but I must remind you that every piece of information we have from this source has proved to be thoroughly accurate ever since he was recruited. I believe that the General de Lacroix* must be informed at once of this turn of events! I enclose details of the deployment of Germany’s northernmost army, and draw your attention to the proposed route . . .

* Vice-President of the Supreme Council of War.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 11:12 PM
Thande Thande is offline
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Excellent start, P

Seems a rather dramatic shift compared to OTL...almost like Dreyfus in reverse...
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Old June 12th, 2007, 11:14 PM
Calgacus Calgacus is offline
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Splendid stuff, MrP! Very nicely written. I await the nest installment....
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Old June 12th, 2007, 11:15 PM
MrP MrP is offline
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Excellent start, P

Seems a rather dramatic shift compared to OTL...almost like Dreyfus in reverse...
Thankee, old boy!

But not so dramatic as you'd think. There was a German officer called "The Avenger" who gave the French information IOTL. But ITTL, he's going to do it for longer and with better results!
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Old June 12th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Calgacus Calgacus is offline
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Excellent start, P

Seems a rather dramatic shift compared to OTL...almost like Dreyfus in reverse...
Except of course that Dreyfus was innocent. More like another Alfred....
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Old June 12th, 2007, 11:21 PM
Thande Thande is offline
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Thankee, old boy!

But not so dramatic as you'd think. There was a German officer called "The Avenger" who gave the French information IOTL. But ITTL, he's going to do it for longer and with better results!
Really?? Well you learn something new every day.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:17 AM
MrP MrP is offline
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Originally Posted by Calgacus View Post
Splendid stuff, MrP! Very nicely written. I await the nest installment....
Thankee, old boy. Ask and ye shall receive.

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Originally Posted by Thande View Post
Really?? Well you learn something new every day.
I have a feeling he might turn up in one of the late Flashman books - with Flashman as him, naturally.

Quote:
Excerpt from a report on strategic problems associated with war with Germany:

It is an inescapable fact that should Germany take the offensive we must not lose a great deal of territory in the north. This is where the heart of our industry lies. If we lose the Briey Basin, we shall lose 83% of our iron ore, 62% of our cast iron, and 60% of our steel production. It is unthinkable that this should occur. It is imperative, if we are to prevail in any conflict of long duration with the German military, that we ensure the continued availability of resources in this area. Any failure to do so will leave us reliant on uncertain allies. It is recommended that at minimum the following forces be deployed to cover the area…
Quote:
A secret attachment to the official report (published 1906) on the Russo-Japanese War, by M. Ferdinand Foch, French military attaché to the Russian Army:

I was wrong. I was terribly wrong. It galls me to say it, but I must. In 1903 I argued in The Principles of War that two attacking battalions could unleash ten thousand rounds more than a single defending battalion. I thought that this gave an overwhelming moral superiority to the attacker. But my experience in the late war has demonstrated what was wrong with my assumptions. Even with improvised defences, the longevity of a battalion is increased. Ten thousand more rounds are of no use to a soldier if the enemy is protected by impenetrable earth!

The Russian soldier is hardy but ill-trained compared to our brave men and the disciplined Prussians. Yet even he resisted the men of the Imperial Japanese Army beyond the call of duty, despite strategic the incompetence of his generals. In the event of war with Germany, we cannot rely on the worth of our Russian allies until they are reorganised into a professional force. On the contrary, we can rely on our Prussian foes to oppose us with strength, discipline and cold science. We must match them or fall beneath their feet…
Quote:
The Times, 6th April, 1906

Inquiring minds have recently noticed an interesting alteration to the French Army’s command structure. On the 3rd instant the Superior Council of National Defence was formed. Experts had expected that this would increase the influence that the generals and admirals could bring to bear on military judgements, but most had opined that the Republican government would not greatly increase the powers of the Army. The Army’s involvement in the coup which led to the accession, some half a century ago now, of the late Emperor, was believed to weigh too heavily against it.

However, contrary to expectations, General Henri de Lacroix has been re-titled as Chief of the General Staff with greatly increased powers, and several superfluous posts in the War Ministry have been removed completely. Indeed, it is to be noted that the French Army is now sufficiently trusted that the formation of Army Headquarters in peacetime has now been permitted. It has been argued that the formation and smooth running of these will greatly facilitate the capability of the military to respond to war.
Quote:
The Morning Post, 21st August, 1911


Today will see the launch of the French battleship Danton in St Nazaire. She is the first of the new Dreadnought-type to be constructed by the French navy, and represents a radical departure from previous classes. Indeed, fierce arguments occurred during her design amid claims that the Dreadnought design was unsuitable and reckless. She is regarded as the French response to Germany’s four Nassau-class dreadnoughts, all completed last year, but mounting superior 12”/50 guns compared to the German 11.1”/45. Details are uncertain at this time, but her protection is reported to be superior, as are her displacement and her top speed. Three further warships of this class will be launched, and the French government has authorised the laying down of two battlecruisers with similar armament. These are to be named Voltaire and Vergniaud.

An officer of the Royal Navy confided to this reporter that it was unlikely that the French warships would prove a great threat to His Majesty’s vessels, as French construction methods are known not to approach ours. Nonetheless, there has been much debate in the House of late. Lord Bath recently pointed out that…
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Thande Thande is offline
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More good stuff, P, I like the excerpt style.

Know what you mean re. your comments in the other thread - it does feel like Frankwank, even though really it's OTL where so many things rather implausibly went wrong for the French at once...
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:24 AM
MrP MrP is offline
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More good stuff, P, I like the excerpt style.
Cheers, old boy. Actually, I adapted it from your historians in LTTW.

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Know what you mean re. your comments in the other thread - it does feel like Frankwank, even though really it's OTL where so many things rather implausibly went wrong for the French at once...
Aye, politics is the big bugger. I'm sweeping details under the carpet for now in the hope that I can avoid mentioning them unless someone calls me on precisely why the French government decided to allow x to do y.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:27 AM
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Aye, politics is the big bugger. I'm sweeping details under the carpet for now in the hope that I can avoid mentioning them unless someone calls me on precisely why the French government decided to allow x to do y.
Maybe you can insert some political crises (it's early 20th century France, it's not difficult) and the armed forces end up becoming pretty autonomous due the lack of a coherent command structure at the top, as short-lived governments keep falling?
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:29 AM
Douglas Douglas is offline
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Question, of questionable relevance:

What was the British government's stance on Luxembourg? After looking at the Schlieffen Plan, it seems to me that a French move into Luxembourg prior to a German invasion would force Hausen's Third Army to attack across the Our River and Albrecht's Fourth Army to run into a powerful defensive force that (coincidentally, of course ) would protect the Briey-Longwy mines, and slow down the center of the "Great Sweep", forcing Bulow and Von Kluck to be a little more cautious.

EDIT:Linky to the map I'm looking at.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:38 AM
MrP MrP is offline
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Originally Posted by fenkmaster View Post
Question, of questionable relevance:

What was the British government's stance on Luxembourg? After looking at the Schlieffen Plan, it seems to me that a French move into Luxembourg prior to a German invasion would force Hausen's Third Army to attack across the Our River and Albrecht's Fourth Army to run into a powerful defensive force that (coincidentally, of course ) would protect the Briey-Longwy mines, and slow down the center of the "Great Sweep", forcing Bulow and Von Kluck to be a little more cautious.

EDIT:Linky to the map I'm looking at.
Good question, that - and I'm glad you raised it before I've done aught too specific. The French certainly didn't think anything of the Lux'ers, regarding them as German in all bit name. I honestly don't know what the British thought . . .
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:43 AM
MrP MrP is offline
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Originally Posted by Thande View Post
Maybe you can insert some political crises (it's early 20th century France, it's not difficult) and the armed forces end up becoming pretty autonomous due the lack of a coherent command structure at the top, as short-lived governments keep falling?
It's mostly a question of finding the specific name for the right French parliamentarian at the right time. They had sensible people who wanted the Army to have autonomy . . . it's just that I only know the names of the ones who succeeded IOTL. Unfortunately. The government before the one in which Messimy was Minister of War fell partly because it became obvious to the politicians (who'd never bothered to ask, clearly ) in 1911 that the army was hamstrung by political interference and lack of internal cohesion. ITTL the French government sorts this out earlier, beginning with a strong start in '06. But I don't have a name for the minor politician who starts the stone rolling.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:47 AM
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Good question, that - and I'm glad you raised it before I've done aught too specific. The French certainly didn't think anything of the Lux'ers, regarding them as German in all bit name. I honestly don't know what the British thought . . .
It may be a Wiki article, but apparently Luxembourg was a declared neutral, but leaned slightly to the French:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...in_World_War_I
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Old June 13th, 2007, 02:13 AM
MrP MrP is offline
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It may be a Wiki article, but apparently Luxembourg was a declared neutral, but leaned slightly to the French:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...in_World_War_I
Hm, with an army of 400, I can't imagine anyone getting too worked up about Luxembourg. I'll PM Wozza, though, see if he knows owt.

And now a final bit before I slide weary into bed.

Quote:
The Daily Telegraph, 13th February, 1910:

A surprising state of affairs has prevailed hitherto in France. The renowned 75mm gun has been almost the only weapon available to French divisional commanders. Excellent though this weapon indubitably is, it is interesting to compare the equipment available to British or German soldiery. Whereas a French division has 36 of these 75mm guns, and nought else, the Germans field both 7.7cm guns and 10.5cm howitzers. Our own forces field 18pdr guns, 4.5” howitzers and 60pdr guns. It has long been intimated that the French army is substantially deficient in this arena.

It is with great relief, therefore, that the French military can now claim that during the next four years batteries of 105mm and 155mm guns will be added to the strength of infantry divisions. There have been howls of protest from the manufacturers of the 75mm gun, who have proposed various “solutions” to the problem, such as shells specifically designed to plunge on the enemy. However, in the end, only guns of greater strength proved capable of meeting the challenge. The 75, despite its diminutive size, is a splendid, weapon, but in utility it can no more hope to fill every role than can HMS Dreadnought hope to patrol every corner of the Empire!
Quote:
Summary of Concentration Plan XVI by General Victor Michel (for the benefit of Prime Minister Poincaré), 1912:

The current plan allows for the deployment of considerable forces to our border with Belgium. However, these forces are not wholly committed to Belgium, and may be redeployed South if need be.* However, all our intelligence for almost a decade now has indicated that the main German stroke will come through Belgium. There are other areas that require our attention, and they are important, but we must not forget our left flank.

From the south to the north we have an impressive array of fortifications, soldiers, artillery, machine guns and commanders. General Dubail’s 1st Army has been assigned to defend the region between Belfort and Nancy. 2nd Army under Geneneral de Curières de Castelanau will cover the are between Nancy and Verdun. 3rd Army under Serrail is to cover Verdun to Sedan. It may seem as if there is an abundance of troops here, but 2nd and 3rd Armies are to advance as soon as mobilisation is complete, and ensure the safety of the Briey Basin. They will smash aside any advancing German forces, and may penetrate somewhat the territory of the German vassal state of Luxembourg. But they will hold there. If the enemy attack in overwhelming numbers, and we are forced to retreat, then the Meuse River offers an excellent defensive line. But our planners do not anticipate this.

To the north 4th Army under General de Langle de Cary will cover the Sedan-Guise line, and 5th Army under General de Lanrezac will defend the area between Guise and Neuve Chapelle. Immediately behind 4th and 5th Armies will be 6th Army under General Maunoury at St Quentin. He will be available either to be redeployed south using the Abbeville-Toul railway line or to move in support of 4th and 5th Armies into Belgium.

All our intelligence indicates a strong German thrust into Belgium. In fact, perhaps as many as thirty divisions will be sent there. For we know that the Germans intend to deploy Reserve Divisions to boost their frontline strength. So our forces must equal the enemy. We hope to deploy Army W** in support on our leftmost flank, and to have the support of the Belgian Army in defending Belgium. However, neither of these things can be guaranteed beyond a certain point, so it is imperative that we prepare to fight alone. This is what I have provided for.

My deputy, General Joffre, has been instrumental in reorganising our army to release more units for this front. I wish to commend his initiative and intelligence. When this fight comes – and it will come – we must resist with every ounce of our strength. You may rest assured, Mr President, that the Army will do so.

* This is actually a lie on the part of Michel. There would be little free transport capacity in the rail network to shift the armies on the Belgian border south toward Nancy if Germany unexpectedly attacked in the south. However, the defences were at their deepest there, so his confidence was hardly misplaced.

** The French code name for the BEF.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 03:56 AM
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Plan XVI, if you don't mind, P.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 08:41 AM
Thande Thande is offline
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Nice work, P.

Two things: Would mainstream papers really report on minutae like that at this time, down to details of the artillery etc? I stand corrected if you have any real life examples from the era.

Also, I think you may need to have someone object to all this. Obviously they don't get their way for your TL to work, but I think you need to disrupt the Mary Sue-ness a bit by having a French govt or the army throw out some of the useful plans, just for balance.

Keep it up!
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Old June 13th, 2007, 01:03 PM
MrP MrP is offline
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Plan XVI, if you don't mind, P.
Cheers, old boy.

ITTL Plan XVI is rather different, but one can work out where the armies will go. Hm, I'd better put some lines and numerals in, actually. One mo.

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Nice work, P.

Two things: Would mainstream papers really report on minutae like that at this time, down to details of the artillery etc? I stand corrected if you have any real life examples from the era.
Hm, that's a good point. I think The Morning Post might, since it catered to military types and the upper class (and, interestingly, had a special section where aristocrats advertised for staff, so it was widely bought by domestic servants, too!). But the others? Hm. I'm probably letting my love of matters military infect the articles. I'll bear that in mind next time, ta.

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Also, I think you may need to have someone object to all this. Obviously they don't get their way for your TL to work, but I think you need to disrupt the Mary Sue-ness a bit by having a French govt or the army throw out some of the useful plans, just for balance.

Keep it up!
Very true. I mustn't have everyhing go all the right way. Hmm . . . well, the French can keep those silly uniforms for one. I'll have a think about more things. The article above's a bit misleading, incidentally. ITTL the French will still be inferior to the Germans in artillery, but not so badly as IOTL.

Ooh, I didn't PM Wozza! D'oh!
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Old June 13th, 2007, 01:25 PM
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interesting, how far are you intending to take this.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Jammy Jammy is offline
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Agreed interesting, shall keep an eye on this
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