Italian Atomic Bomb challenge (with twist!)
- Thread starter Agentdark
- Start date
Cherico
Banned
thats easy have Mussolini delope a obsession with Science
have him stay out of world war two
have him offer safty to european jews expecially jewish scientists
and have one of them mention this is possible
Getting the material is hard but once he has it he can give all his
efforts into creating a bomb
have him stay out of world war two
have him offer safty to european jews expecially jewish scientists
and have one of them mention this is possible
Getting the material is hard but once he has it he can give all his
efforts into creating a bomb
NapoleonXIV
Banned
The bomb was first suggested in the 1920's, I believe, but most thought that its development was impossible, and many others refused to help make such a weapon
It's always been my contention that any modern nation could have developed the bomb by 1939, if it had started in 1931 and put everything it had into it.
Had Mussolini had a proper science advisor, and if events in the 30's had convinced him that Italy could not hope to compete with the Great Powers in a conventional military sense, he might have decided to develop a secret weapon instead.
Perhaps if Enrico Fermi does not marry the Jewish woman whose safety was the main reason for his emigration to America in 1938 he stays in Italy. In 1930 he becomes science advisor to Mussolini
It's always been my contention that any modern nation could have developed the bomb by 1939, if it had started in 1931 and put everything it had into it.
Had Mussolini had a proper science advisor, and if events in the 30's had convinced him that Italy could not hope to compete with the Great Powers in a conventional military sense, he might have decided to develop a secret weapon instead.
Perhaps if Enrico Fermi does not marry the Jewish woman whose safety was the main reason for his emigration to America in 1938 he stays in Italy. In 1930 he becomes science advisor to Mussolini
Well in the earlier part of the 1930s as far as I understand Mussolini wasn't on brilliant terms with Hitler. Now if we manage to have that stick a bit longer and the poms and frogs grow a spine earlier there is a fair chance one of Hitler's earlier 'adventures' (say remilitirising the Rheinland for example) could have finished rather poorly (from the German perspective that is). Have that incident do sufficient political damage to Hitler and Germany is out of the game for another decade or two. And with Musso either siding with the poms and frogs or not getting involved you have a surviving fascist Italy.
Of cause with the reduced economic harm (thanks to a breifer/non-existant conflict) there is a fair chance that the poms are the first nation to develop the A-Bomb... Now just how to get the Italians building one?
Max Sinister
Banned
Italy hasn't Uranium AFAIK. And while Enrico Fermit was a great scientist, he alone won't do it. Italy also doesn't have the resources the US have.
No, it's practically impossible, Italy really does not have the engineering and industrial resources even if by some miracle it leads in the theorectical science.
My answer to the problem is to devastate anyone else who would try to get the bomb before Italy.
So...here goes.
WW2 goes much as it did in OTL, except without Italy's involvement, meaning Barbarossa goes off sooner, yadda yadda, European Russia is conquered, but Germany remains involved in a horrific (from logistics, weather, etc.) war with Soviet remnants led by our stereotypical Stalin replacement, Zhukov.
The US enters the war on cue, and focuses on the Japanese theater, since an invasion of France into the teeth of the army that conquered Russia seems...not brilliant. The US defeats Japan earlier...too early, in fact, because Japan has to be conquered with conventional weapons, with ensuing casualties.
Just as Japan is defeated, the US gets nukes! Oh joy! Germany gets nuked repeatedly, as the US drops a bomb every time it comes off the assembly time...to avoid an early German surrender, let us say that Germany gets the bomb as well, and manages to deliver all sorts of nastiness to the UK, and possibly America if their rocketwank works. During this time, lets eliminate another future atomic power by having Germany pull its own Morgenthau on occupied France.
Eventually Germany surrenders, and is rather radioactive. Without support from Russia, the Red Chinese cannot force the Nationalists out of China, and China remains in civil war. Now there isn't a country in the world that will get nukes before 1970:
US: First with nukes.
Germany: Second with nukes, is now irradiated and impoverished.
UK: Nuked repeatedly, has Empire to try to hold onto, is under American nuclear umbrella anyway.
Russia: You think the Germans were particularly nice when they were occupying Russia? Or that industry is in a good condition? Think again.
France: Morgenthaued. Busy trying not to starve.
China: Perpetual civil war.
Japan: Close to exterminated.
Italy: It's around 1948, and you have 20 years to develop nukes with a poor industrial base and to keep a fascist regime in power. India did the former, Franco did the latter...get to it!
So...here goes.
WW2 goes much as it did in OTL, except without Italy's involvement, meaning Barbarossa goes off sooner, yadda yadda, European Russia is conquered, but Germany remains involved in a horrific (from logistics, weather, etc.) war with Soviet remnants led by our stereotypical Stalin replacement, Zhukov.
The US enters the war on cue, and focuses on the Japanese theater, since an invasion of France into the teeth of the army that conquered Russia seems...not brilliant. The US defeats Japan earlier...too early, in fact, because Japan has to be conquered with conventional weapons, with ensuing casualties.
Just as Japan is defeated, the US gets nukes! Oh joy! Germany gets nuked repeatedly, as the US drops a bomb every time it comes off the assembly time...to avoid an early German surrender, let us say that Germany gets the bomb as well, and manages to deliver all sorts of nastiness to the UK, and possibly America if their rocketwank works. During this time, lets eliminate another future atomic power by having Germany pull its own Morgenthau on occupied France.
Eventually Germany surrenders, and is rather radioactive. Without support from Russia, the Red Chinese cannot force the Nationalists out of China, and China remains in civil war. Now there isn't a country in the world that will get nukes before 1970:
US: First with nukes.
Germany: Second with nukes, is now irradiated and impoverished.
UK: Nuked repeatedly, has Empire to try to hold onto, is under American nuclear umbrella anyway.
Russia: You think the Germans were particularly nice when they were occupying Russia? Or that industry is in a good condition? Think again.
France: Morgenthaued. Busy trying not to starve.
China: Perpetual civil war.
Japan: Close to exterminated.
Italy: It's around 1948, and you have 20 years to develop nukes with a poor industrial base and to keep a fascist regime in power. India did the former, Franco did the latter...get to it!
NapoleonXIV
Banned
Uranium can be imported, esp. in peacetime. You underestimate Fermi, who did make the first reactor largely alone, and a reactor can produce plutonium. This is peacetime so there is no war and I am positing that Italy drops everything else Also we are talking 9 years, (1930-39) rather than 3 (1942-45) (MP was started in Dec 41, bomb in May 45)
It would be damned hard to keep a secret that big for that long, but not impossible.
little Nasty Epilog
in Late 1960´s Italy Goverment wantet The Atomic Bomb
Switzerland had Aggressive Plan to bulid Nuclear Wapon
France had the Bomb
Romania and Yugoslavia wantet the Bomb and collaborated in the design and development of the Orao strike aircraft.
and that guy from Libia look for the Bomb also
you understand know Italy need for the Bomb...
but lucky under NATO Multilateral Nuclear Force (MLF) concept
Italy, for its part, modified the 1930s-era Cruiser Giuseppe Garibaldi with four launch tubes for Polaris missiles!
And Plant and Testet a MRBM the ALFA
lucky 1968 Switzerland abandon the Program do to Cost overrun
USSR hit on fingers of Romania and Yugoslavia like littel childern.
"You shall not have Atomic Wapons next to USSR!"
so Italy abandon the Projekt in 1977
fullstory here
in Late 1960´s Italy Goverment wantet The Atomic Bomb
Switzerland had Aggressive Plan to bulid Nuclear Wapon
France had the Bomb
Romania and Yugoslavia wantet the Bomb and collaborated in the design and development of the Orao strike aircraft.
and that guy from Libia look for the Bomb also
you understand know Italy need for the Bomb...
but lucky under NATO Multilateral Nuclear Force (MLF) concept
Italy, for its part, modified the 1930s-era Cruiser Giuseppe Garibaldi with four launch tubes for Polaris missiles!
And Plant and Testet a MRBM the ALFA
lucky 1968 Switzerland abandon the Program do to Cost overrun
USSR hit on fingers of Romania and Yugoslavia like littel childern.
"You shall not have Atomic Wapons next to USSR!"
so Italy abandon the Projekt in 1977
fullstory here
Kang Seung Jae
Banned
To tell the truth, Japan would have had a fair chance of getting nukes, if they had unified their diverse projects and started getting uranium from Korea earlier.
was there december 2006 not a Japanies Newpaper had leakt a Goverment Report on timetabel of 27 Months to Plan build an Test Japan Nukes ?
I remember vaguely
Kang Seung Jae
Banned
Not really sure, but when it comes the the materials, the Japanes had more access to uranium. It was just that they couldn't refine it that was the problem.
oh no
they have the Possibility, even to Produce Plutonium
Tokaimura nuclear accident
Nuclear power in Japan
the Plutonium fast breeder reactor in Japan.
a German Friend told me:
he talkt to south Korean in Frankfurt
she say it Better North Korea has the Atombomb and Not Japan !
I hope there no a Japanies Atombomb test in June 2008