World war 1

[Cherico]

what would realistically happen if the US had joined the
Central powers?

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Cherico

what would realistically happen if the US had joined the Central powers?

The Entente would have been in big, big trouble, basically.

Problem is, if the USA were in a position where they were likely to join the Central Powers, the Entente would have behaved differently, too, so it would depend on the specifics of US actions. What sort of scenario did you have in mind?

[nunya]

The Entente would be a real lot of trouble.The USA staying neutral will probably still lead to a Entente victory,on the Central Powers side they will do a lot of damage and will likely cause a CP victory.

[Jared]

To start with, Canada is in trouble...

[Riain]

Bulk imports from the US would be fought through by the German and US navies. The CP would easily win.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Jared

The Entente would have been in big, big trouble, basically.

Problem is, if the USA were in a position where they were likely to join the Central Powers, the Entente would have behaved differently, too, so it would depend on the specifics of US actions. What sort of scenario did you have in mind?

Jared hit the nail on the head. The more time the Entente has to adapt with the US joining the Central powers, the better for them. Conversely, the less time available, the better the Central Power's advantage.

For example, if the US indicates it clearly favors Germany well in advance (say 10 years), then Briitain, France, and Russia have more time to counter the balance. More warships to counter the US's naval production ability, a reallocation of troops to defend Canada and other Entente interests, changes in policy to attract more allies in Central/South America to help counter the US. Also, Britain, France, and Russia might play their cards differently in European alliances, not backing certain people if it was clear that doing so would cause a losing war. (Then again, gross misestimation still occur.)

On the other hand, if the US's decision is sudden and surprising, the Entente is much worse off. Troops that were thought to have been needed more in Europe can no longer defend Canada. The naval proportion built up before the war is no longer in the Entente's favor. The critical loans the US supplied Britain and France later in the war are no longer available. The US can use its influence, if not to make South America pro-Central, at least more neutral than it had been.

[Max Sinister]

Even if the US only stayed neutral, it's not sure the Allies would win. The CPs already knocked out Russia (though there's the question: Would Ludendorff have sent Lenin to Russia if he doesn't have to fear America?). They could attack in France, or first try to knock out the lesser Allies (Italy, Greece). Of course, since the western Allies have seen what Germany did to Russia with B-L, they'll fight like hell to prevent the same happening to them.

[Frost Soldier]

Definitely no Holocaust, as Hitler is likely to remain an obscurity with a better chance of victory for CP. US / German Navy basically rules the seas and the front is also a lot bigger with Mexico and Canadian lines a long line of trench. That mine mean less US involvement in the European front, and no Canadian involvement, as well as a lessened amount of British support, as some forces would be drawn to Mexico and Canada.

However, the US probably wouldn't exactly be the most eager to fight Canada and England - at least the individual soldier. That might be a big factor.

Also, if US went CP, it is likely that maybe some countries on the Entente side would be a lot more involved? Maybe a heavier Japanese naval presence in the Pacific, along with, possibly Chinese as well.

Basically, all of Europe, South America, and Eastern Asia has a chance to be invaded by the US, and thus the coastal defenses probably have to be strengthened.


So, it is likely that we'd be backstabbing England and France, but at least we had no Hitler doing the holocaust in WWII?

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Frost Soldier

US / German Navy basically rules the seas

Pardon? The German navy never broke out in the conflict, and the Royal Navy could hold her own versus most the world put together. It might be hard to bottle the huns, fend off the yanks, and feed Britain at the same time, but it wouldn't be impossible.

and the front is also a lot bigger with Mexico and Canadian lines a long line of trench.

I understand Canada, but why Mexico? Mexico didn't exactly have much leadership at the time, or central government at all. How is it going to join in?

And no, the boarders wouldn't become "a long line of trench". Turtledove covered this in his TL-191 series; North America is far too wide for such warfare to happen except in a small number of areas. France isn't even as large as Texas, yet most of the fighting in Europe went on in France. But Canada? If anything, in most places it would be a war of movement like in the Eastern front.

That mine mean less US involvement in the European front, and no Canadian involvement, as well as a lessened amount of British support, as some forces would be drawn to Mexico and Canada.

Pretty much. Once again, it all depends as to what point the US joins the Central Powers. In the worst place, the US could declare war while Canadian troops are in Europe!

However, the US probably wouldn't exactly be the most eager to fight Canada and England - at least the individual soldier. That might be a big factor.

This underestimates both nationalism and the potential causus belli. If it's revealed that British officials deliberatly had ships with US passengers sunk in order to incite the US against Germany, a lot of Americans would be pissed. Plus, the US had a significant pro-Central power group present; German and eastern European immigrants who settled in the American midwest.

Also, if US went CP, it is likely that maybe some countries on the Entente side would be a lot more involved? Maybe a heavier Japanese naval presence in the Pacific, along with, possibly Chinese as well.

Perhaps, perhaps not. The US has Hawaii and the Philippines, but it's debateable how realistically Japan could have gotten them, since in OTL by then the Philippines were well on their way to becoming independent post-WW1.

Basically, all of Europe, South America, and Eastern Asia has a chance to be invaded by the US, and thus the coastal defenses probably have to be strengthened.

This is stretching it quite a bit. IOTL, it took the US years after declaring war to get an Army onto friendly occupied territory. And while this could very easily be butterflied away by a more prepared US, the difficulties in getting to most of these places is being understated. Manpower, supplies, naval reliability, lack of local allies if most of these places are pro-entente...

However, I personally wouldn't mind seeing a Central Power- US strike for colonial territory after winning. Maybe actual territory in South America, rather than ungodly influence.

So, it is likely that we'd be backstabbing England and France, but at least we had no Hitler doing the holocaust in WWII?

I question how a normally isolationist nation on a differet continent can "backstab" two European countries, especially when they were never allied to begin with, but that's just me.

No Hitler, though some other racist somewhere else could arise for similar reasons.

[MrP]

Originally Posted by Cherico

what would realistically happen if the US had joined the Central powers?

Need more background for a proper answer, old boy. What leads to the US allying with Germany and A-H?

[Cherico]

Since we dont have a consensis I must conclude that I didnt fill in the
gaps enough, I will try to put down a reason and time for the US to
enter the Central powers.

( Washington DC 1916 July 25th)

Wilson clenched his fists in rage
"Are you sure this inteligence is correct?"

The man in the suit shuffled his feet
"We found a british submarine near the sinking of the three
pasengerships they had techical difficultys, they talked, the
british purposely attacked our ships to great britian in order to
convince us to join in the war aganst Germany."

Wilson looked at the roof of the white house
"Have the newspapers found out about this?"

The man looked down
"Its going to be all the papers tomorrow."

Wilson looked at the man
"Well it looked like I have a trip to make to congress, I unfortantly
have a war to start."

[NHBL]

Originally Posted by Cherico

Since we dont have a consensis I must conclude that I didnt fill in the
gaps enough, I will try to put down a reason and time for the US to
enter the Central powers.

( Washington DC 1916 July 25th)

Wilson clenched his fists in rage
"Are you sure this inteligence is correct?"

The man in the suit shuffled his feet
"We found a british submarine near the sinking of the three
pasengerships they had techical difficultys, they talked, the
british purposely attacked our ships to great britian in order to
convince us to join in the war aganst Germany."

Wilson looked at the roof of the white house
"Have the newspapers found out about this?"

The man looked down
"Its going to be all the papers tomorrow."

Wilson looked at the man
"Well it looked like I have a trip to make to congress, I unfortantly
have a war to start."

I'd say that, in this scenario, the Entente is going to loose, and quickly. The big question is weather they realize it, and seek terms the next day. For that matter, if Congress is about to declare war, Wilson could--and should--try to buy time to allow an ultimatum to be sent to Britian, and either accepted, or rejected. Unless it's totally impossible, Britain would likely accept it.