Alternate Subcultures

The 20th century has seen the rise of many subcultures, Beatniks, Hippies, Goths, people with Leather fetishes, Skinheads, Ravers, Nudists, etc.

What other subcultures could there have been?

I'd like to see one centered on pirates. They don't rob ships on the high seas, they just go around dressed as pirates and talk like pirates and do such things.

The pirates thing might be in the future, given the "Pirates vs. Ninjas" craze.

Furthermore, you could have alternate versions of an existing subculture.

For example, in the early days of the Republic, the evangelical Protestants (Baptists and Methodists) were active in the fight to establish separation of church and state due to their persecution by the state Puritan (North) and Anglican (South) churches. This led to a de facto alliance with Jefferson and Franklin, who were deists but shared the same objectives.

The "evangelical subculture" rather than withdrawing from the political mainstream until relatively recently (not totally sure why--it might be due to the rural, isolated, and impoverished nature of many of its adherents), could have remained part of the national mainstream from the beginning. Thus we might end up with a stronger "Religious Left" (if separation of church/state is seen as something God wants believers to fight for).

In my Chaos TL I have:

- Menschenhelfer ("humanity's helpers") - a kind of hippies, but more practical, who want to help needy people, esp. in the 3rd world
- Logos (basically hackers, but under the special conditions of a somewhat dictatorial state)
- Bolzer (originally football/soccer hooligans, later any kind of ganger)

Crazies - an urban tribe of autistics, ADHDers, bipolar and other neurodiverse people. They form their own neighborhoods or just form roaming gangs. Whatever POD that makes there a dedicated otaku ghetto in the united states just like Akibahara - maybe in the future this happens in say San Francisco or Seattle or Portland, or more likely in Vancouver. (all those cities have large numbers of vagrants, many of them from mental facilities that closed down and they moved there due to the relatively nice climate).

Neo-Techies. Distinct from hipsters, they walk around in public in cyberpunk garb and act like they are living in the world of Blade Runner.

Not so alternate, but modified: Moped Gangs. Originally formed by moped connoiseurs, they spread into legit gangs in cities like Chicago and NEw York. Get into conflicts with motorcycle gangs, as well as bicycle gangs (yes there are bicycle gangs). Their main turfs are the highly developed inner city regions, and relatively rarely the suburbs. The idea is influenced by the anime series Durarara and the comic Moped Army, as well as The Warriors i'd say.

also modified: Otaku gangs/weeaboo gangs who go out looking straight out of a shoujo or lolicon anime, or maybe a shounen anime - they incorporate east asian culture - as well as their 'original' culture (e.g. black otaku gangs incorporate Swahili and Ebonics sayings, as well as olld black folk tales into their garb and "feel" - Irish gangs incorporate Irish mythology like the Dullahan as well as other things, etc etc).

I'm tempted to say there could be a separate hikikiomori gang from ex-hikkiomori who networked with fellow hikikiomori in the same city and did not fit into the 'more social' gangs.

I am bumping this too. also related thread
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=184749&highlight=alternate+subcultures

The New Men - from an alternate 1970s where Vietnam, Watergate, and stagflation never happened. Their common denominator is their desire to apply the principles of science to the proper organization of society, but beyond that their actual ideas vary wildly, from Randian anarcho-capitalism to planned economy capital-T Technocrats, although as a group they tend more towards the latter. No communists, however. They share a common stylistic preference for "futuristic" aesthetics and a tendency to loudly reject their elders' opinions as hidebound and traditionalist, particularly on the subject of sex. The subculture has adopted the blue SAC stripe as a logo, which they see as a prime example of how to run a "scientific" organization. They're mostly from the professional classes, mostly young, mostly white, almost all American, and have a reputation for being arrogant. They tend to come up with odd ideas like mandatory psychotherapy and government-sponsored brothels as a way to dissipate social tensions that would otherwise lead to war.

I forgot about this. Alternate history/future furry gangs. Nagas, Otherkin and whatnot in the streets

A Furry gang lol How do you see this turning.] Pretty OTL but it's still fun to modify to make ATL.

also, another link http://thefurststate.com/forums/thread-1008.html

They remind me also of the Street Kids/Gutter Punks that you rarely see around here.....

Sir John A. said:

What other subcultures could there have been?

I'd like to see one centered on pirates. They don't rob ships on the high seas, they just go around dressed as pirates and talk like pirates and do such things.

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It happened. See both the Pirate Party and also the anarchist thing for pirates between Hakim Bey's T. A. Z.. The Temporary Autonomous Zone, Ontological Anarchy, Poetic Terrorism. and the mid-to-late 00s.

Also of interest to you may be William Burrough's Cities of the Red Night where he argues for a time travelling mexican cowboy / tantric / pirate revolutionary subculture; kind of on the same ontological basis that Bey later takes up, rather than a political economic revolutionary basis.

What about if there was a more modern day equivalent of the Mods and Rockers? A sort of modern Quadrophenia with an alternate form of Emos that are more rock orientated and a new subculture called Urbs that are hip hop and urban orientated.

Emos - inspired by Rock culture
- Dark clothes with flashes of bright colours
- Skinny jeans
- Skater shoes
- Dyed black or blonde hair
- Rock music
- Scooters

Urbs - inspired by Hip Hop culture
- White or black athletic clothes and tracksuits
- Hip-hop hats
- Short cut hair with shaved stylings
- Hip Hop and Rap music
- Mopeds

Historically the "bucaneers" (who often weren't pirates) lived on tropical islands in the Caribbean, selling meat from feral cattle to passing ships and doing their own thing. Many were runaway slaves or deserters from cruel militaries.

Perhaps being a "beach bum" as a way of life, doing odd jobs to get by, as modern-day successors?

Flocc's Anglo-Dutch Empire had some of these.

Lards (also called Tubs in some areas) :

Anti-gym, anti-dietetics groups that rose after the crash of the hippie culture. While most of them leave happy (if a little shorter) lives in our modern society, a few of these groups have formed gangs targeting fashion magazines, vegetarian restaurants and support groups, as well as gym clubs. Militant non-violent Lards protest fashion shows, airplane companies overcharging for overweight travellers, and clinics performing stomach clamping operations. Others run foundations to detect and cure children anorexia, as well as support groups to help people accept the way they look.

Normies :

The latest fad in sub-culture is to reject sub-culture itself. The Normies (individual members are called Norman) are a group of militant citizens whose goal is to encourage - and in some occasions to force - a return to mainstream values. They attack militant groups from other sub-cultures, try to convert their kids, and in a few rare occasions have even kidnapped children to give them "a proper education". Normies eschew innovative thinking and sometimes disrupt lectures, classes and political rallies to enforce a return to "common sense" and "accepted wisdom".

BillyShears said:

Urbs - inspired by Hip Hop culture
.....
- Short cut hair with shaved stylings

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Don't forget the inverse, the "Jewfro" or whatever white people to to gain an Afro. It'd be funny to see european descended people spending shitloads of money, resources and bawwwwing in order to get their hair streightened.

I'd like to see one centered on pirates. They don't rob ships on the high seas, they just go around dressed as pirates and talk like pirates and do such things.

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Septembre 19th is --International Talk Like a Pirate -- Day

back in 1964 my Dad was taking my Brother and Me to see the Worlds Fair.
Whe stopped in a Cherokee Gift Shop & Restaurant for Dinner.
After dinner I walked up the hill behind hoping to see the Indian Teepee's.
Instead all that was there was a small town of regular houses.

Since I have wondered about a Tribal Subculture, growing out of the Civil Rites Movement.
Small groups of Blacks - Hispanics - Others, buy a piece of land and built a small town. They setup a Tribal Government, Same telefone code, water/sewage, Power, Ect.

^There was a black nationalist group that went anarcho-primitivist and they all took the surname 'Africa' so there is a premise. Also, the 'Freetowns' set up by escaped and emancipated black slaves....

EDIT: your post makes me wonder.....there's a lot of old people on this forum

Im used to assuming most people are 13-30 on the internet haha! Yes I know its not new and ive seen it in the past but o_0

Lards (also called Tubs in some areas) :

Anti-gym, anti-dietetics groups that rose after the crash of the hippie culture. While most of them leave happy (if a little shorter) lives in our modern society, a few of these groups have formed gangs targeting fashion magazines, vegetarian restaurants and support groups, as well as gym clubs. Militant non-violent Lards protest fashion shows, airplane companies overcharging for overweight travellers, and clinics performing stomach clamping operations. Others run foundations to detect and cure children anorexia, as well as support groups to help people accept the way they look.

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Actually that's probably well within what's possible given modern society..

Power through People

In reaction to a recognition by various Highly Intelligent Progressives that they are loosing the demographic "Culture Wars" by being out bred by fundamentalists of a variety of flavors from Christian, to Muslim to Jewish so that globally the world is becoming more conservative and anti-intellectual they come together to create nongovernmental organizations, and related groups promoting large families for smart forward thinking people. It is a race to see who controls the future with the star of the new "Big Left" being the stars of a reality Television show featuring a family of twenty, all gifted and with each member either focusing on inventing the technology of the future, writing books, plays, taking top science fair honours, or winning Chess Championships.

Parker51 said:

In reaction to a recognition by various Highly Intelligent Progressives that they are loosing the demographic "Culture Wars" by being out bred by fundamentalists of a variety of flavors from Christian, to Muslim to Jewish so that globally the world is becoming more conservative and anti-intellectual they come together to create nongovernmental organizations, and related groups promoting large families for smart forward thinking people. It is a race to see who controls the future with the star of the new "Big Left" being the stars of a reality Television show featuring a family of twenty, all gifted and with each member either focusing on inventing the technology of the future, writing books, plays, taking top science fair honours, or winning Chess Championships.

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Ewwwww I see that getting nasty. Sibling Rivalry, as well as academic rivalry is already nasty enough according to some people. Now, imagine a bunch of overachieving gifted families fighting with each other as well as within themselves for dominance. You see where this can get bad right? Then again I have a bias against large families...

There's a bunch of relatively obscure ones that were still pretty influential on larger ones and could be ripe for an ATL. For example, Kurt Cobain (Kurdt Kobain) was involved with the Go Team back in the 1980s and cited albums like Beat Happening's Jamboree as being on his 'top 50' list. Yet the Twee/Anorak scene is not known at all outside of indie music aficionados now despite influencing so many bands. I'd imagine that under different circumstances that could have become at least a minor fad in the states.

I've always wondered what the Beat Movement would look like with the absence of Cassidy (and therefore Kerouac, or vice versa seeing as how either man's notoriety was dependent upon the other). But if we end up with only Ginsburg or Burroughs, what does that "Generation" of 1950's counter-culture look like? And talk about long term effects, by the time we get the Merry Pranksters in the 60's, Cassidy is still around and influential in that scene as well. So, does folk music ever really take off? I know Kerouac's obsession with the idea of the noble savage (my words, not his; but see his scenes about his time with the Mexicans) weren't uncommon among the Beats, but does the idea of returning to nature ever take off? The social, cultural, and political ramifications for the next two decades would be pretty spectacular for sure.

Warsie said:

Ewwwww I see that getting nasty. Sibling Rivalry, as well as academic rivalry is already nasty enough according to some people. Now, imagine a bunch of overachieving gifted families fighting with each other as well as within themselves for dominance. You see where this can get bad right? Then again I have a bias against large families...

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"Tomorrow belongs to me..."

I think this involves a misuse of "left" due to a particularly US context.

Social Democrats, and leftwards, believe in the perfectibility, or the capacity of approaching the limit of perfectibility, through nurture.*

Historically we have seen unions of poor, mothers, homeless, unemployed, craftsmen, etc. As soon as they get a room above their head they put in a library and education courses. Rather than breeding bigger families, the typifying child raising action of the left is to form a Worker's Educational Association.

yours,
Sam R.

*The eugenic exceptions have died out since 1940 on the left for rather obvious reasons, and were never as influential in the discourse as perfectibility discourses—not in the least. To describe the anti-working class section of the greens as left in this context is as perverse as describing liberalism in the United States as left wing.