German-Italian war over Tyrol in the late 1930s

Thande

Thande

Donor
One of the Nazis' stated aims was to regain all the territory lost by Germany in WW1, as well as all other German-speaking lands such as Austria and the Sudetenland.

Now, Tyrol (or the southern part of it) was annexed to Italy from Austria-Hungary after WW1. The Nazis did incorporate South Tyrol into the Grossdeutsches Reich after Italy switched sides in 1943 and they set up the Italian Social Republic.

But could there have been an earlier conflict over Tyrol? WI a Sudetenland-like question had emerged? Would Britain and France have been willing to back fascist Italy against Germany?
 

Sertak

It's also quite plausible variant. What you need for such twist of event would have been making Mussolini feel hatred and envy towards Germany, more harsh policies of Germans towards Austria (then pro-Italian) and making Hitler Italophobic.
 

Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy

Banned
I don't think Hitler would have wanted such a conflict, he looked up to Mussolini. Things would change if Il Duce decides to oppose him, but he'd have to agree to the anschluss first and then change his mind about Hitler.
 

oberdada

If you want a war like that, you need to get rid of Hitler first.

Giving up Tyrol for an alliance with Italy was one of his key projects, already in Mein Kampf.

The German people from Tyrol were supposed to move to Crimea, renamed into Gotenland.
 

Nicole

Well, possibly if Mussolini was stronger in his support for an independent Austria, Hitler could throw in a demand for Tyrol as a second justification for war with Italy...
 

LordKalvan

It might be part of an Italo-German war opposing the anschluss (say in spring 1938). There have already been TLs postulating this.
The POD is likely to be UK and France not opposing (or maybe just verbally opposing) the conquest of Ethiopia, and therefore better relations between Italy and the western powers.

Before the anschluss, or attempted anschluss, is not possible: there is no common border between Italy and Germany. Once the anschluss is on, there is no reason for Hitler to create a crisis over a piece of land he really is not interested in. Having to choose between Sudetenland and Sud-Tyrol, which one do you pick?
 
Hapsburg

Hapsburg

Banned
How about this:
Dollfuss avoids being assassinated in 1934, but barely, and reacts violently against the Austrian Nazis, expelling major Austro-Nazis and centralizing power. Austria allies with Mussolini in, say, late 1934, as an act of Fascist solidarity, both viewing Hitler's German as too socialist for their tastes (NSDAP, remember).
Italy guarantees Austria's sovereignty and vice versa, and they join a mutual-defense pact and military alliance, in mid-35, and sign a treaty resolving the Tirol Border debate. In 1936, Dollfuss is assassinated by a group of insurgent Austrian Nazis. The Nazis in Germany see their chance, and use paramilitary measures and subterfuge to kill key Austrofascists, and flood the border with pro-Anschluss and pro-Nazi voters (read: proxies) with counterfeit Austrian citizenship records; they demand a referendum for the union of Austria to Germany. In early 1938, the Austrofascist leadership, barely in control, relents to the population, despite the protest of Austria's top brass. The army takes control in a coup the same day the plebiscite's results are publicly announced. The new military dictators condemn the plebiscite, none too inaccurately, as voting fraud. A sizable percentage of the population proclaim the Nazi Government in Berlin as the legal government of Austria, but the Austrofascists and their army leash-holders control much of the countryside, and contend to be the true government. Italy sides with the Austrofascists, and are requested to aid the Austrian resistance against the imminent German invasion, which starts in August of 1938.
 

Max Sinister

Banned
"both viewing Hitler's German as too socialist for their tastes (NSDAP, remember)."

Fascism stole some elements from Socialism too. Mussolini's puppet state after 1943 was called "the Social Republic".
 

LordKalvan

and Mussolini himself was a socialist, before founding the fascist party.
Fascism was not monolitical, and the same counts for nazism. There were left-oriented fascists (Bottai, for example), and while fascism was a regime, there were significant reforms in favour of the workers over the years.

What Mussolini did not want was a strong Germany on the northern border; in the end he accepted the anschluss and went along with Hitler believing that Uk and France had lost any will to fight.
 

EdT

Two problems with this I think...

Firstly, I think it's going to be rather difficult for a conflict over the Sudtirol to happen if Mussolini has already peacefully acquiesced to the Anschluss. OTL, the effective abandonment of the German claim to the region was what bought the Italians off- if Rome has good enough relations with Berlin not to oppose the incorporation of Austria into the Reich in the first place, I think you're going to have to do something rather more dramatic to cause a break between the two nations.

Secondly, what's Hitler's motivation to pick a fight? He already has Austria, and the Sudetenland/Polish corridor are far jucier targets then the towns of Bozen and Meran. The area isn't exactly an industrial powerhouse and is quite defensible. I'd have thought that the Germans would have bigger fish to fry in the East. On a practical level too, the Völkischer Kampfring Südtirols are not going to be a wonderfully effective 5th column- I'd have thought that in any situation where a hostile Germany grabs Austria, the first thing Mussolini would do would be to have a ruthless crackdown in the region.

IMO if you're going to get a war between Germany and Italy it's almost certainly got to be over Austria rather then Sudtirol.
 
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