WI there was no American Revolution?

I am often moved to wonder what would have happened if The American Revolution would have never happened. I feel that if King George would have swallowed his pride and asked France for help, The United States would've never existed. Perhaps, we would've been named New England as a whole. Perhaps, all major world conflicts would have included us but as subordinates. just a thought. what do you think?
 

Xen

Banned
There was a name of a plan (cant think of it right now) submitted by an American Tory who believed the colonies should govern themselves but remain loyal to the Crown. Basically what would have happened was the 13 colonies that rebelled would unite with those that didnt (think Quebec, Nova Scotia, etc.) in forming a new government with its capital in located in Philadelphia. It would have been an earlier form of the Canadian Confederation, except more of a Confederation.

If Benjamin Franklin wasnt treated like a red headed step child by the British in London, he may have supported the plan, and his voice would have carried a lot of weight. There might still be a rebellion but one thats not likely to succeed.
 
If Benjamin Franklin wasnt treated like a red headed step child by the British in London, he may have supported the plan, and his voice would have carried a lot of weight. There might still be a rebellion but one thats not likely to succeed.

Stopping Franklin passing on stolen private correspondence (a considerable offence at the time) in a deliberate effort to stoke ill feeling would prevent the treatment he received.

I doubt it changes much other than his house gets ransacked (earlier), burnt down and his family are put in jeopardy (as happened when he supported the Stamp Act).

He probably ends up in exile with his son who remained loyal to the crown (assuming the lack of Franklin doesn't change things with the French).
 
I feel that if King George would have swallowed his pride and asked France for help, The United States would've never existed.

It isn't a matter of pride (and I honestly haven't seen the idea before), the French wished to see the British weakened even though in hindsight they should have realised the Americans wouldn't show any greater loyalty or gratitude to France than they did to Britain.

Just as they should have realised that helping people rebel against a liberal government in the name of liberty wouldn't bode well for the French autocracy.
 
Stopping Franklin passing on stolen private correspondence (a considerable offence at the time) in a deliberate effort to stoke ill feeling would prevent the treatment he received.

I doubt it changes much other than his house gets ransacked (earlier), burnt down and his family are put in jeopardy (as happened when he supported the Stamp Act).

He probably ends up in exile with his son who remained loyal to the crown (assuming the lack of Franklin doesn't change things with the French).

This seems to imply that the American revolution would continue and succeed ala OTL. When you consider that many rebel officers were still toasting to the health of King George even in the second year of the war, the idea of a very reasonable compromise isn't so hard to accept.
 
Hindsight is 20/20. But seriously: The 7yr war wasn't too long ago, the French had lost - not only North America, but India too - so the wish for revenge was there.
 
It was the Albany Plan, and Ben Franklin was its primary supporter and conceiver.

It was also resurrected later as the Galloway Plan.

Seriously, we would be paying taxes to Inland Revenue Service rather than the Internal Revenue Service. I think there would still be complaints over 'taxation and representation' - as there are in OTL.
 
This seems to imply that the American revolution would continue and succeed ala OTL. When you consider that many rebel officers were still toasting to the health of King George even in the second year of the war, the idea of a very reasonable compromise isn't so hard to accept.

Sam Adams and his bunch hijacked proceedings long before that, the Generals could always be replaced.

Congress ran the show and they were a self selective group tending towards the more radical end of the spectrum and that was only reinforced over time.

Joseph Galloway for example feared for his safety due to his moderate views and he himself had proposed a power sharing plan (where Congress and Parliament would have equal authority over the colonies) which had been rejected as too soft as early as 1774.

I can't see the rebellion being prevented unless order is restored (one might say created) and people can support the government without fear of reprisal from hired goons and mobs (an effective counter-propaganda war n the governments behalf wouldn't go a miss either).

The best way to get that is to either enforce the Stamp Act (a difficult if not impossible task) or to find another method and enforce that vigorously before opposition can grow and increase in boldness with each British climb down/appeasement.

Remember Franklin didn't switch sides until his family and holdings in America came under threat whilst he was in Britain due to his support (I would say indifference) towards the Stamp Act.
 
a lot of changes. The Americans would eventually be like the Canadians... federated and given independence sooner or later, but kept in the Commonwealth. The future US (or whatever it's called) might not look anything like ours. It's likely that we'd end up with Louisiana still, but there might not be a tiff with Mexico that would result in the big land grab that occured in OTL. And of course, there'd be no need for an equitable division of Oregon, so the borders there would probably be a lot different. Immigration would still be heavy (so much land to fill), but probably more orderly and not quite as heavy as in OTL. Hawaii would not likely be a part of this US. Alaska might be bought (under the idea of "Might as well sell it before it gets taken from us")... or it might be just taken... but in either case, it probably wouldn't be a part of the US.
 
a lot of changes. The Americans would eventually be like the Canadians... federated and given independence sooner or later, but kept in the Commonwealth. The future US (or whatever it's called) might not look anything like ours. It's likely that we'd end up with Louisiana still, but there might not be a tiff with Mexico that would result in the big land grab that occured in OTL. And of course, there'd be no need for an equitable division of Oregon, so the borders there would probably be a lot different. Immigration would still be heavy (so much land to fill), but probably more orderly and not quite as heavy as in OTL. Hawaii would not likely be a part of this US. Alaska might be bought (under the idea of "Might as well sell it before it gets taken from us")... or it might be just taken... but in either case, it probably wouldn't be a part of the US.

Turtledove's The Two Georges has an interesting map of North America. Because of no American Revolution, there was no real inspiration for other coordinated revolts, so Mexico remained a spanish land. However, during some war or another the northern part of Mexico was also lost, so there was a similar border.
 

Xen

Banned
It was the Albany Plan, and Ben Franklin was its primary supporter and conceiver.

No thats not what I was thinking of, that was 20 years too early, I was thinking of the Galloway's Plan of Union it was defeated by a vote of 5-6 in 1774.
 
Interesting scenario! But how long does this Commonwealth of North America last? Would this prevent an American Revolution, or only the 1776 one as in OTL, postponing the Revolutionary War into the 19th century, perhaps the start of the 20th. It seems sooner or later a Sam Adams figure would demand full independence, not content with mere autonomy or commonwealth status.

In either case, what would be the effect on the practice of slavery? Would this impact westward expansion?
 
Interesting scenario! But how long does this Commonwealth of North America last? Would this prevent an American Revolution, or only the 1776 one as in OTL, postponing the Revolutionary War into the 19th century, perhaps the start of the 20th. It seems sooner or later a Sam Adams figure would demand full independence, not content with mere autonomy or commonwealth status.

In either case, what would be the effect on the practice of slavery? Would this impact westward expansion?
You seem to imply that revolution was inevitable.... why? Canada and Australia didn't rebel from British rule, they peacefully evolved into independent states with a common heritage. I think this is what would happen with the American Colonies. Or ratehr, I think the colonies (including those in Canada) would remain independent states, and one or two may have some rebellious instances, but not enough to 'throw off the imperial yoke'.

Probably end up with a currency/trade union, maybe some common legal pratices, but more autonomous Commonwealth countries across the continent with more independence than seen in either the US states or Canadian provinces today.
 

Xen

Banned
You seem to imply that revolution was inevitable.... why? Canada and Australia didn't rebel from British rule, they peacefully evolved into independent states with a common heritage. I think this is what would happen with the American Colonies. Or ratehr, I think the colonies (including those in Canada) would remain independent states, and one or two may have some rebellious instances, but not enough to 'throw off the imperial yoke'.

Probably end up with a currency/trade union, maybe some common legal pratices, but more autonomous Commonwealth countries across the continent with more independence than seen in either the US states or Canadian provinces today.

I agree, getting all the colonies to rebel at the sametime as they did seems almost ASBish, and was probably a fluke. Do you remember the movie the Patriot? There was a line in there that described the sentiment of alot of other colonies "Massachussetts and Virginia may be at war, but South Carolina is not."

If the Revolution is avoided or defeated there may be some problems, particularly in New England for a while, but a generation or two passes and these problems subside, especially if they gain some autonomy from the Parliment. There may also be some problems in the south with the abolishment of slavery in the nineteenth century, but this will likely be very small scaled and easily defeated, then again we can have an Anglo-Dixie War, perhaps somewhat similiar to the Boer Wars? But all the colonies rebelling again? Especially considering some colonies very narrowly elected to join the Revolution anyways.
 
One thing that is almost never mentioned in the "No American Revolution" timelines is that if OTL United States remained part of the British Empire, either as a unit or divided into various colonies, this region of the empire would become economically more powerful than Britain itself by the late 19th century. This would raise some issues, because economic clout is usually connected with political power in one form or another. Would the center of the Empire shift to North America, with perhaps even the capital and the royal family moving to the western side of the Atlantic?
 
When Britian outlaws slavery in 1834, I wonder if there would be a revolution in the southern provinces. Once the coton gin made cotton a valuable commodity, slavery was granted a new life. In the West Indies, I understand slaves had lost some of their economic value so it was easier to free them. But the south would fight to keep them. Calhoun would have made an interesting leader.
 
When Britian outlaws slavery in 1834, I wonder if there would be a revolution in the southern provinces. Once the coton gin made cotton a valuable commodity, slavery was granted a new life. In the West Indies, I understand slaves had lost some of their economic value so it was easier to free them. But the south would fight to keep them. Calhoun would have made an interesting leader.

A part of Britain's abolition of the slave trade was the financial compensation of the slaveholders for their slaves. The Southern slaveholders would have been reimbursed for their loss.
 
One thing that is almost never mentioned in the "No American Revolution" timelines is that if OTL United States remained part of the British Empire, either as a unit or divided into various colonies, this region of the empire would become economically more powerful than Britain itself by the late 19th century. This would raise some issues, because economic clout is usually connected with political power in one form or another. Would the center of the Empire shift to North America, with perhaps even the capital and the royal family moving to the western side of the Atlantic?

North America as a whole would outweigh Britain but New York wouldn't, nor would Georgia and so on.

There is no need for the colonies to think of themselves as a group and thus have any particular vestment in the idea of the Queen living a thousand miles away as opposed to three thousand.

London would remain the world financial capital and the most important political city in the world.

Britain would remain first amongst equals by a fair margin and thus the leader, assuming the Empire sticks together in some form.
 

mattep74

Kicked
Turtledove's The Two Georges has an interesting map of North America. Because of no American Revolution, there was no real inspiration for other coordinated revolts, so Mexico remained a spanish land. However, during some war or another the northern part of Mexico was also lost, so there was a similar border.

I find the world map in the Two Georges a bit strange. No Napoleonwar would let Sweden have good relations with UK and prevent Russia from attacking it. Even so Finland belongs to Russia
 
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