What if the Baltic landlocked?
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Charlemagne's empire reaching to the Arctic Ocean! No Soundtoll for Denmark. A large Scandinavian Empire fighting HRE off on the southern border. Russia when emerging moving into Scandinavia to reach the sea - Sweden and Denmark or Sweden-Denmark-Norway fighting for their lives.
The Baltic would remain a fresh water lake. 
It actually was so until the end of the last ice-age, when the ice in Sweden melted and made for an outlet. Later the current outlets through the straits were created by a land depression.
It actually was so until the end of the last ice-age, when the ice in Sweden melted and made for an outlet. Later the current outlets through the straits were created by a land depression.
A freshwater Baltic would have profound effects. First off, prospects for irrigation in Scandinavia, northern Poland, and the Baltic states would be immense. It would also, however, affect currents and wind patterns, and therefore regional weather. I am definitely not an expert in climatology, but from what little I know, I think that the result would be that North-Central Europe would be colder and wetter, and Northern Russia would be drier.
Its really impossible to even speculate..... An earthquake TL, or some such, might give a POD, other than that, its difficult to even try.
POD would be really difficult. The Baltic Ice lake was brought off by the melting ice-cap. When the ice in central Sweden melted it created an outlet. Central Sweden then rose and closed off the outlet and another, the present, was created by the depression of southern Denmark.
Interesting about the amber - will it form in fresh water or is it a salt water phenomena?
Interesting about the amber - will it form in fresh water or is it a salt water phenomena?
??? Amber is just hardened tree resin. Why would it be affected by the salinity of water?
Yep.
Unless we're just talking about possible evolutionary effects and whatnot.
I don't know. I've looked it up. To be called amber it has to be at least 20 mill. years old! It is found in the ground and on beaches. That found in the ground is softer at you can pick off chips with your fingernails. That found on the beach is hard. Haven't seen anything on the nature of amber found in fresh water.
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
I disagree. We're not talking about something magical here, or something imposed by supernatural powers. The Baltic was originally a fresh-water lake, and given a different set of circumstances, could have remained so, without magical/supernatural intervention. It's not different, really, than PODs talking about surviving dinos or North American horses.
If it is that old, surely it will have spent time both in the ground and the water? It would have to originally form in the ground, since the trees don't grown in water.
As for the POD, I'm with Smaug.We can get this without ASB.
Something geological...an earthquake, or an underwater landslide. A jøkulhaups, changed river path, or meteor strike.
A vital element would be when the POD happens, though.
I was just wondering - perhaps the amber wouldn't be present in the Baltic in OTL "numbers" in TTL, when the Baltic remains a fresh water lake. That would change knowledge of the area in antiquity. Baltic amber has been found in Mycenean graves. In TTL it may not be so and trade routes may not be established. So ancient scribes wouldn't know of the Baltic!
The land depression and rising in Denmark was caused as an aftermath of the ice-age. Land that had been under the ice rose and other sunk. Perhaps a not so southerly ice-sheet would be needed to ensure TTL. Change of climate!!!
That could do it. Personally, I'd prefer an earthquake or similar later on. Its just easier to speculate when we start with known peoples and tribes.
On the amber, it may change the accessibilty of it. I mean all the formation is done well before the POD, so numbers are the same. However, without tides, the shores do not get churned up like OTL, and there are different plant life covering a larger area of land. Amber may be harder to find.
On the amber, it may change the accessibilty of it. I mean all the formation is done well before the POD, so numbers are the same. However, without tides, the shores do not get churned up like OTL, and there are different plant life covering a larger area of land. Amber may be harder to find.
Yes but seismic activity is scarce to nothing in our area.
No amber in the Baltic, less trade - less trade less interest in the Baltic area by peoples in the Med... less interest in the Baltic - other development in the area.
Or amber scarcity drives prices up, and leads to a more organized Amber harvesting? With earlier states forming?
It is not totally unknown for sesmic activity to happen in unexpected places. I seem to remember hearing about an asian quake some years ago in a completly unexpected place. Also, maybe a tidal wave could have done it, or a jøkulhaups?
It is not totally unknown for sesmic activity to happen in unexpected places. I seem to remember hearing about an asian quake some years ago in a completly unexpected place. Also, maybe a tidal wave could have done it, or a jøkulhaups?