Challange: Constantine converts to Islam

Mike Stearns · Feb 13, 2007

What if Emperor Constantine converted to Islam instead of Christianity. How would the Roman Empire and the rest of Europe have been different?

And yes I know Islam didn't arise until later, but lets assum that it exists during the time of the Roman Empire.

Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy · Feb 13, 2007

Either move this to ASB or change the POD to "Islam appears at least 3 centuries earlier".

Keenir · Feb 13, 2007

Mike Stearns said:
What if Emperor Constantine converted to Islam instead of Christianity. How would the Roman Empire and the rest of Europe have been different?

if he adopts Sunni Islam, then he'll probably treat the Shia like he already treated the Jews. if he adopts Shia Islam, no idea.

And yes I know Islam didn't arise until later, but lets assum that it exists during the time of the Roman Empire.

with that, its simple:

Caesar = Caliph

Larrikin · Feb 13, 2007

Constantine

would be a very, very, very, old man

Leo Caesius · Feb 13, 2007

Perhaps if we imagine an undead Constantine...

ninebucks · Feb 13, 2007

We can't just assum that Islam arrives centuries earlier. Like all religious phenomena, the rise of Islam was deeply routed in historical events. People emerge from the desert claiming to be the Lord's one true prophet practically every other day, the only thing that makes one 'prophet' more successful than any other is the historical situation, in Islam's case that was civil strife in Persia and Byzantium, coupled with widespread discontent towards the Arab pagan elite and traditional tribal governance.

Strategos' Risk · Feb 13, 2007

Time machine.

A more realistic one would be if he had converted to one of the other non-Roman religions at that time. But what? Zoroastrianism was the creed of the Persians, who were no friends of the Byzantines. Perhaps a Gnostic sect? (though that would be kind of swapping one form of elitist esotericism for another)

Manichaeism is contemporaneous, but was it known by the Romans during Constantine's rule?

Empror Mike · Feb 13, 2007

The most likely case is Constantine converting to Judeism, as the Roman elite and intelligencia were already leaning towards that direction.

until the arrival of Christianity, that is, which soon became Judaism without the penal violence and minisized menu....

The best case would be Christianity not giving up circumcision and kosher-eating, thus not appealing to the gentiles not fulfilled witht their pagan ways. Then Constantine would have went Jewish, and the Palestinians would have never left OTL Israel because they'de already be Jewish.

Mike Stearns · Feb 13, 2007

VoCSe said:
Either move this to ASB or change the POD to "Islam appears at least 3 centuries earlier".

Ok fine. For the sake of arguement lets assume that Mohammed was born during the reign of Constantine.

Alayta · Feb 13, 2007

Mohammed is only the prophet for allah.
allah could have choosen Constantine very easily.

Lets have C visit the arabvian peninsula and have a religiouis vision in which allah reveals the quoran to him.

Ran Exilis · Feb 13, 2007

Leo Caesius said:
Perhaps if we imagine an undead Constantine...

...an undead Constantine that converts to Islam...

I'm just picturing a zombie Constantine that imposes Islam on his largely Christian empire here...

As if the Christians didn't have enough reasons to believe that Islam is in league with the Antichrist!

..
But seriously, this thread is quite ASB.

Leo Caesius · Feb 13, 2007

Ran Exilis said:
...an undead Constantine that converts to Islam...

"The only god is God, and Muhammad is his ... BRRRAAAIIINNNSSS..."

Calgacus · Feb 13, 2007

An undead Constantine would be a constant in an ever changing world. in fact he'd be a constant Constantine. If he had a negative effect on the development of Christianity then he might be...Constant Constantine Constantly Co-opting the Copts!

My brain hurts...

maverick · Feb 13, 2007

Constantine converting to Islam, now that's a challenge.

How about him being a zoroastrian? that'd be funny and with interesting consequences, especially if a branch of Zoroastrism is created with a centre in Rome or Bizantium.

ninebucks · Feb 13, 2007

Empror Mike said:
The most likely case is Constantine converting to Judeism, as the Roman elite and intelligencia were already leaning towards that direction.

until the arrival of Christianity, that is, which soon became Judaism without the penal violence and minisized menu....

The best case would be Christianity not giving up circumcision and kosher-eating, thus not appealing to the gentiles not fulfilled witht their pagan ways. Then Constantine would have went Jewish, and the Palestinians would have never left OTL Israel because they'de already be Jewish.

So Constantine converts to a religion with circumcision and strict dietery laws to avoid... converting to a religion with circumcision and strict dietery laws??

Judaism is not going to catch on amongst pagan peoples on that large a scale, at least not Judaism as it is practiced by the Jews, which is an entirely ethnocentric religion.

Wendell · Feb 13, 2007

ninebucks said:
So Constantine converts to a religion with circumcision and strict dietery laws to avoid... converting to a religion with circumcision and strict dietery laws??

Judaism is not going to catch on amongst pagan peoples on that large a scale, at least not Judaism as it is practiced by the Jews, which is an entirely ethnocentric religion.

I'm not sure the last part of that assessment is entirely fair.

Ibn Warraq · Feb 13, 2007

Empror Mike said:
The most likely case is Constantine converting to Judeism, as the Roman elite and intelligencia were already leaning towards that direction.

Roman elites were leaning towards converting to Judeism? Are you sure about that. I've never heard that and it wouldn't seem to make any sense why Roman elites would be interested in some tiny religion in one of the more obscure parts of the empire, particularly since Jews didn't believe in prosletyzing.

Ran Exilis · Feb 13, 2007

Ibn Warraq said:
Roman elites were leaning towards converting to Judeism? Are you sure about that. I've never heard that and it wouldn't seem to make any sense why Roman elites would be interested in some tiny religion in one of the more obscure parts of the empire, particularly since Jews didn't believe in prosletyzing.

Well, that wasn't entirely true during the Roman age, since there were quite some people who converted to Judaism during this age, and there were even actual communities of such converts.

However, once Christianity (and later Islam) began to dominate, proselytizing became a capital offense for Jews, which effectively put an end to the practice of proselytizing.

Alcuin · Feb 13, 2007

Strategos' Risk said:
Manichaeism is contemporaneous, but was it known by the Romans during Constantine's rule?

Manichees were persecuted by the Romans in much the same way as Christians (ie sporadically rather than systematically) so it's entirely possible for Constantine to come across Manichaeism.

On the other hand, one of the throwaway timelines mentioned in one of the GURPS handbooks is one in which Caligula converts to Buddhism after word of that faith came back from India with a Roman Merchant. How about Constantine converting to Buddhism?

Scarecrow · Feb 13, 2007

Leo Caesius said:
Perhaps if we imagine an undead Constantine...

ZOMBIE CONSTANTINE:

Must...Crush..Paganism