Myriocephalum 1176-Comnenus Wins.

This is always considered to be a 'second Manzikert', the revived Byzantines under the Comnenii wind up unravelling in one fell stroke, leading up to the catastrophic events of 1204.

So what happens here if Manuel avoids being trapped in the pass and either A: sacks Konya or B: encounters Killij Arslan's main armies in a more favorable battleground?

Certainly you can avoid 1204, at least for some more years.

I think one should not underestimate the effect decisive victory at Myriokephalon would have had on Manuel. By all accounts, he pretty much gave up after the battle, which could have possibly resulted in him dying a few years earlier than he would have otherwise. So, if it buys him even 4-5 extra years of life (not too implausible), this means Andronicus I as Emperor could be butterflied away - after all, if Manuel manages to get his son more or less able to rule on his own by the time Manuel dies, there will be little pretext for Andronicus to do away with "Latin" Empress and her clique.

This would mean that the events setting 1204 in motion would have harder time happening, as there is no massacre of Latins under Andronicus. Even then, if Alexius II becomes Emperor as an adult, and Manuel leaves him with enough instructions and trusted advisors to be at least marginally competent, this would mean the end of Turkish power in Anatolia by 1200, if Myriokephalon does not do that in first place. So, Myriokephalon is the best bet to have resurgent Byzantium post-Manzikert, IMO, unless one gives more time to John II...

Very good point - the question is what could he do in 5 years ? Or if he lived longer what could have been acheived - if by 1200 the borders could have been repaired this would have been an intresting world

Byzantine forces would then be able to push the eljuks east into Kurdistan and might focus on creating a land route into Jerusalem. It gives the Crusader states a morale boost and might lead to excursions into Egypt as Manuel tried before Myriocephalum. He's also likely to use Anatolia as a means to (re)build an army capable of taking southern Italy and Sicily, perhaps Sardinia, chunks of the Papal States, and other areas of the Balkans. Saladin is a wild card, if he focuses on taking in Constantinople the overall result could hurt Byzantium more than help it.

Good points.

Manuel DID get himself caught up in the 'Western Thing' way too much, sure. John was the picture of competent, strong-willed, steady. A longer run by him, perhaps-and you might have seen Iconium etc. re-taken before Manuel wound up having the chance one way or the other.

I agree if John had ruled longer you would have had some good penetration into the Edessa area as well as further east of Antioch.

If the success had happend in this area perhaps Manuel would have continued this move East vs a western approach