An event in search of a POD: the fate of the Beiyang Navy

[Hendryk]

One of the initiatives taken by Li Hongzhang in the late 19th century was to equip China with a modern navy, an objective he very nearly achieved. The navy became known as the Beiyang Fleet; its flagship was the Dingyuan 定远 "Pacificator of Distant Places". This site provides a comparison between the Chinese and Japanese navies at the time of the Yalu battle in 1894.

Anyone who feels like giving this respectable fleet a chance to make history is welcome.

The history of the Dingyuan can be traced back to 1878. At that time the late Qing Dynasty was rife with corruption and weak. It had paid little heed to coastal defence until one day in 1878 when the Japanese navy intruded into China's territorial waters off the coast of Taiwan Province.

With no way to repulse the Japanese force, the Qing Government decided to build a modern navy. After consulting with both British and German governments, the Qing Court in 1881 finally handed the contract to build the advanced warship to Germany's Vulcan shipmaking plant, at a cost of 1.7 million taels of silver.

Records show that the Dingyuan was recognized as the most advanced battleship of its time, the better of any ship in the mighty fleets of Great Britain and Germany. It measured 94.5 metres long and 18 metres wide with a 30-centimetre covering body armour. Experts say the Ironclad was resistant to any firepower available at the time.

Its four 305-mm calibre Krupp cannons boasted a range of 7.8 kilometres at 500 metres per second. Another two 150-mm calibre Krupp cannons installed at the bow and stern were able to lob shells as far as 11,000 metres with a preliminary speed of 580 metres per second.

Torpedo boats were also carried on board, enlarging the Dingyuan's striking distance and battle effectiveness.

To meet the demands on ship, 20 desalinators were installed which could serve 300 people fresh water daily.

"With many new and hi-tech designs of the time, the birth of the Dingyuan aroused great attention from the world's navy circles," said Professor Jiang Ming, who has been involved in modern navy research for many years. "Its advanced capabilities shocked the world, especially Asian countries."

In 1884 the Dingyuan was finished and sailed back to China, arriving the following year. Also in 1885, the Beiyang Fleet was founded in Weihai, and based at Liugongdao Island, marking the establishment of China's first modern fleet.

"At that time the Beiyang Fleet became immediately well-known because of the birth of world-class warships including the Dingyuan, Zhiyuan and Zhenyuan."

In the following 10 years, the Dingyuan visited Japan, Korea, Singapore, Malacca and Vladivostok, winning fame and glory wherever it went.

However, by the middle of the 1890s the waning Qing Dynasty lost its desire to keep ahead in the naval race, in contrast to the strengthening Japanese navy.

In 1894, Japan's navy made a sneak attack on Chinese warships and troop carriers. In the Yellow Sea Battle of September 1894, the Dingyuan led the Beiyang Fleet in driving the Japanese out. But on February 5, 1895, the Dingyuan was seriously damaged after being hit by a Japanese torpedo and later cannon fire. With surrender not an option, Captain Liu Buchan ordered the ship scuttled. And so ended the brilliant and tragic life of the battleship.

[Sargon]

The problem with the performance of the Ch'ing fleet was not with the ships, but with training and quality of various support equipment.

Shells for example were often of very poor quality because of money saving measures...some even had sawdust put in them instead of bursting charges by unscrupulous officials, which or course, affected their capacity to explode. In addition, training was lax: there are instances where laundry was being hung on vital parts of the ships such as guns, indicating a lack of discipline that often showed up in battle. And then of course, a large part of the budget for the Imperial Navy was squandered on building a marble boat at the Summer Palace as well as other renovations there, which also resulted in a shortage of ammunition.

So, Ting Yuan and Chen Yuan were pretty good ships, and what needs to be addressed is corruption, quality control and training. The Chinese commanders were not particularly bad at all, however, they were unfortunately hampered by other factors. In fact at Yalu River, even some of their most heavily damaged ships continued to fight despite the poor ammunition situation, and they did inflict serious damage on at least 4 Japanese ships. However, the captain (not the Admiral) on board the flagship did make some errors, such as blowing his own bridge off the ship with his first shot by firing the guns in a position that the German builders had expressly said not to do causing the Admiral to become a casualty whilst doing so. Sort those problems out, and the Japanese could have suffered a very rude shock.

However, it must be remembered that whilst the ships were pretty good at the time they were built, this battle was many years later, and they had been superseded in design by that time with the new pre-dreadnoughts that were appearing in the 1890s. They were still effective units though.

For those of you who are interested, the Chinese have recently actually built a full size replica of the Ting Yuan that is a museum. There's a page about it here. Probably the only major ship in the world to be currently flying the flag of the Imperial Chinese Navy.


Sargon

A Timeline of mine: The Roman Emperor Who Lost His Nose

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by Sargon

So, Ting Yuan and Chen Yuan were pretty good ships, and what needs to be addressed is corruption, quality control and training. The Chinese commanders were not particularly bad at all, however, they were unfortunately hampered by other factors. Sort those out, and the Japanese could have suffered a very rude shock.

Quite. China had a decent navy which could have been put to a number of uses, the most obvious of which being the protection of its sphere of influence and territorial integrity against encroaching powers. But the problem, as you point out, was the worsening deliquescence of the regime, which resulted in substandard training for the ships' crews, unreliable logistics and the embezzlement of much-needed funds. Which means that the POD would have to be political rather than military.

But even then, it has been argued that the Japanese victory at Yalu was a close call, and that the Chinese could, with some luck, have brought the engagement to a stalemate or even a technical victory. China would still have lost the war itself but would have been able to negotiate more lenient terms, and this may have made a further difference in the following years. With a battered but still usable war fleet, a smaller drain on its already overstretched finances, and a credibility boost for the Self-Strengthening lobby, who knows whether the paralyzing stranglehold that Cixi had on the decision-making process could have been checked?

[Hendryk]

I found the following observation on Chinahistoryforum, and have extended to its author an invitation to develop his speculation further over at AH.com. He may or may not take it up, but I think his ideas deserve thinking about:

as it was, the fight was close enough. the same western observers thought the japanese were lying to the skies when the japanese later reported that none of their ships sank (although quite a few were badly wounded).

without the problems of [lack of training and low-quality ammo], which wasn't so much a problem of technology but of priorities (both financial and military), the battle would most likely have ended up as an even closer stalemate or possibly even a slim chinese victory.

if this had happened- and if li hongzhang hadn't lost his nerve- the main impact would probably have been that the japanese would not have attempted the landings at either port arthur/lushunkou or weihaiwei.

in all likelihood, though, the japanese would have still won the war; but without taking port arthur or weihaiwei the defeat would have been a close, not humiliating. under this scenario, the equivalent of the treaty of shimonoseki would not have been half as harsh, and i can't imagine the western powers jumping on china afterwards, either.

[Grey Wolf]

IIRC the major reason for China's naval deficiencies despite its pretty good ships was to be found in the Dowager Empress' taking back of personal rule and her mis-appropriation of the naval budget. I used to know a lot about this, but as usual most of it has gone for a walk from my brain, but I recall she had not the slightest interest in the navy, and used its allocated budget for things such as a full-sized marble ship in the Forbidden City parklands. Again, IIRC the navies ended up being run mainly from provincial budgets, and the yards as far as possible as commercial enterprises so as to try and generate money - they weren't much cop at it tho', and couldn't build anything bigger than a small gunboat, tho' I think they tried. France's annihilation of one of the fleets in the Sino-French War removed the flexibility that was supposed to be there in having regional fleets and left the Northern Fleet as the only major force; Canton had a few ships I think, but in order to defend Shanghai ships were borrowed from the North.

Memory is about exhausted now...

Grey Wolf