1960s in a central Powers victory world.
- Thread starter maverick
- Start date
I'm not so certain that there would have been all that many changes from a scientific perspective. Many of the inventions we think of as the basis for the modern world were either already in existance at WWI, or being worked on by so many that they were almost inevitable.
Let me take a stab at a few differences of a non-political nature.
1. With a Central Powers Victory, German would have become more of the defacto language of Central Europe. As a result, from an entertainment perspective, the German film industry would be competitive with Hollywood. Perhaps not as big, but certainly competitive.
2. There is a good chance that Derigibles would be in common use, if not for passengers, then to move air freight. (Remember one the Hindenberg was only using hydrogen because the US wouldn't sell Germany Helium).
3. If Germany won quickly, there would be many 'germano-philes" (?) in the US who would emulate the 'virtues' of the German character.
Bright day
The standard answer most people like to hear?
A-H has collapsed and non-polish parts of Cisleithanien hav been rolled into Germany. Schools are stricly in German, Sorabish and Slovenian are dead, Czech is on its way. Italians had mostly moved to Italy or USA.
Hungary is as said independant. Slovak culture has been destroyed for over a generation. It does not seem peachy for Romanian, Serbs or Bosnian Muslims, Croats have it bit better but they are too second-class citizens. Only Germans enjoy equality with Hungarians.
Serbia is little despotic country perpetually afraid and hatefull of its big neighbour to north.
Romania is a dictatorship of proletariate. They have allied with USSR in Ukrainian War in early 20's and won, but paid heavy price. The oil fields and revenue that helped them fund their army are gone and they are now comletely dependant on USSR.
Turkey is fairly prosperous country, Jewish and Kurd terrorists are relegated to outlying provinces and the Arab nationalism has finally calmed itself down.
France is ecstatic, worried and angry. Ecstatic because they have finally seen last of Jewish traitors deported to Madagascar- finally the armee wil be able to hold its own aganist treacherous colonials; worried because there are rumours of crypto-Judaists abound; angry because they have lost their North African possesion to unholy alliance of Arabo-terrorists and Judo-bolsheviks.
British are feeling down, they thought that Great War woud not hold down. Afterall they had all those lesser races at their disposal to help them keep up industrial production with Germany, right? Not anymore.
The standard answer most people like to hear?
A-H has collapsed and non-polish parts of Cisleithanien hav been rolled into Germany. Schools are stricly in German, Sorabish and Slovenian are dead, Czech is on its way. Italians had mostly moved to Italy or USA.
Hungary is as said independant. Slovak culture has been destroyed for over a generation. It does not seem peachy for Romanian, Serbs or Bosnian Muslims, Croats have it bit better but they are too second-class citizens. Only Germans enjoy equality with Hungarians.
Serbia is little despotic country perpetually afraid and hatefull of its big neighbour to north.
Romania is a dictatorship of proletariate. They have allied with USSR in Ukrainian War in early 20's and won, but paid heavy price. The oil fields and revenue that helped them fund their army are gone and they are now comletely dependant on USSR.
Turkey is fairly prosperous country, Jewish and Kurd terrorists are relegated to outlying provinces and the Arab nationalism has finally calmed itself down.
France is ecstatic, worried and angry. Ecstatic because they have finally seen last of Jewish traitors deported to Madagascar- finally the armee wil be able to hold its own aganist treacherous colonials; worried because there are rumours of crypto-Judaists abound; angry because they have lost their North African possesion to unholy alliance of Arabo-terrorists and Judo-bolsheviks.
British are feeling down, they thought that Great War woud not hold down. Afterall they had all those lesser races at their disposal to help them keep up industrial production with Germany, right? Not anymore.
Why would the Ottomans deport all the Jews to the outlying provinces? IIRC most of them (outside of the Levant) lived in cities like Thessalonika or Constantinople.
Or are you referring to the Zionists?
Or are you referring to the Zionists?
Ah.
Just a quibble, but I think it would still be the Ottoman Empire, not Turkey.
Would the Hungarians, by themselves, be strong enough to hold down Bosnia, Slovakia, and Croatia? The Germans' equivalent of the Vietnam War might be sending troops to help the Hungarians "maintain internal stability."
What's Cisleithanien?
Sorbish isn't dead today--why would it be dead in a Germany-victorious TL?
Max Sinister
Banned
Cisleithanien is the Austrian half of A-H.
TTL Germany would be more nationalist (at least compared to Weimar and the FRG), they'd try to assimilate the Sorbs with all legal means.
TTL Germany would be more nationalist (at least compared to Weimar and the FRG), they'd try to assimilate the Sorbs with all legal means.
1) I think that unless the war was won in first year the sultanate would fall regardless, though I am no expert. After that even victorius Ottomans would not be able to keep ALL of empire together- and who better to blame? Or the monarchy can end by other means in the forty years time we have.
2) There is little trouble holding Slovakia, yes you cannot hold the mountain, but neither can you feed an army there. Croatia is crucial as it is sea acces for Hungary, but yes it would be hard to just supress it- ergo why I have Croatians above other supressed natioanlities. Croatians would surely keep the Bosnia in line, not becuase they are Croatians, but because they are humans. Nothing keeps human spirits so hig as seeing another people lowered even lower than you are.
3) The Austria in Austria-Hungary.
4) It has faced pretty big crisis in 1990's, but yes things have since bit picked up (though about three years ago some Sorbish schools were closed). Plus the Sorbs have received lot of money since 1945 (Slavs and the communist "internationa spiel" (which was of course used only outside USSR))to keep them afloat. Without all that money and stronger pressure I find it likely for crisis to come that earlier and end in, well, end of Sorbs.
Max Sinister
Banned
Don't forget the religious difference: Croatians are Catholic, Bosnians are mostly Muslims or Orthodox.
Orthodox Bosnians are called Serbs
I mainly did not want to get into a debate on whetever all Croatians are racsit swines or just majority of them
.
Thande
Donor
That sounds more like a description of the 1940s in a CP victory universe, not the 1960s.
It would take at least till 1940's for Slovaks to die off. Slovenian would not go so quick. The Romanian oil would not have had ran out yet. The Arabic nationalism would still be somewhat inflamed. France will not just walk out of North Africa, and "final solution" will need time to grow and be accepted. Likewise British need to squeeze Raj hard and get kicked out by force; not easy.
So what do you think the 1960' would look like?
Some important questions: How they won the war? When? There was also a depression and a second world war a generation later?
The results of the last can make bizarre situations. Some time ago I started to think in a story set on an alternate world where the CP won WWI but lost WW2 against a coalition of fascist British, nazi French, marxists Italians and stalinist Russians. Imagine the situation by the 60s: Europe destroyed, the CP divided in different puppets and a Cold War going heater than OTL equivalent. Creepy, eh?
The results of the last can make bizarre situations. Some time ago I started to think in a story set on an alternate world where the CP won WWI but lost WW2 against a coalition of fascist British, nazi French, marxists Italians and stalinist Russians. Imagine the situation by the 60s: Europe destroyed, the CP divided in different puppets and a Cold War going heater than OTL equivalent. Creepy, eh?
*Russia is a second-rate, underdeveloped nation with great potential under either Communists or military dictators
*UK is a financial center reliant on its colonies for foodstuffs and raw materials but is the respected #2 of Europe
*USA is beginning to compete w/ Germany for rocket/space technology and is the only nation capable of truly challenging Berlin on its own
*France is economically depressed but afloat, it is #3 in Europe. More socialist and likely a military dictatorship (under De Gaulle or LeClerc?)
*Italy is economically linked to Germany but is semi-independent, it is also a leader in alternate power sources
*Balkans are a German trade zone that are not as advanced as Germany itself
*Japan maintains its Empire and is slowly taking over SE Asia by purchases and subsidized wars/rebellions
*Ukraine is a prosperous German satellite and breadbasket with notable German-owned industries
*Hungary is a major tech center and Budapest is the European equivalent f Cal Tech and MIT
*Germany has mid/late-1970s tech by 1965 and is the world leader in many fields. German and English are the world's business languages, it encompasses modern Germany, Austria, Czechloslovakia, Poland, Lithuania, and chunks of Ukraine, Belarus, Belgium, France, and Slovenia. Kaiser still rules and exploration of space and sea are major priorities.
*UK is a financial center reliant on its colonies for foodstuffs and raw materials but is the respected #2 of Europe
*USA is beginning to compete w/ Germany for rocket/space technology and is the only nation capable of truly challenging Berlin on its own
*France is economically depressed but afloat, it is #3 in Europe. More socialist and likely a military dictatorship (under De Gaulle or LeClerc?)
*Italy is economically linked to Germany but is semi-independent, it is also a leader in alternate power sources
*Balkans are a German trade zone that are not as advanced as Germany itself
*Japan maintains its Empire and is slowly taking over SE Asia by purchases and subsidized wars/rebellions
*Ukraine is a prosperous German satellite and breadbasket with notable German-owned industries
*Hungary is a major tech center and Budapest is the European equivalent f Cal Tech and MIT
*Germany has mid/late-1970s tech by 1965 and is the world leader in many fields. German and English are the world's business languages, it encompasses modern Germany, Austria, Czechloslovakia, Poland, Lithuania, and chunks of Ukraine, Belarus, Belgium, France, and Slovenia. Kaiser still rules and exploration of space and sea are major priorities.
Thande
Donor
There'll be some sort of German-dominated European economic union that includes Germany, Austria if still separate, the Netherlands, any independent Belgium and Poland, and possibly the Balkans. I suspect France would escape direct economic domination by Germany and might revive the Latin Union idea with Spain, Portugal and Italy in an attempt to compete.
I agree it makes a big difference when they won. A 1914 Schlieffen Plan worked scenario (which I don't buy) TL will be much different from Germans take Paris in 1918 TL (which I don't buy either).
Scandinavia would likely form a strong defense-economic pact as an alternative to German influence but trade with all sides. Denmark is likely to see some attempt at Germanophilism but I doubt it becomes a majority mindset.