Challenge - Scotland defeats Denmark

[Grey Wolf]

From a dream on Saturday night

Scotland remains independent, fights Denmark at some unspecified date, gains hegemony over the Faeroes and Iceland, and later over Spitzbergen

How does this come about ?

Grey Wolf

[Anthony Appleyard]

Scotland remains independent

Henry VIII of England has better luck producing sons and grandsons.

fights Denmark at some unspecified date

This happened OTL, e.g. the Battle of Largs, in retaking the western highlands and islands from Vikings. To attack the Faeroes, Scotland would need more manpwer and a bigger fleet. This becomes a geological ATL :: much more flat land and less mountains in south Scotland.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Anthony Appleyard

Scotland remains independent

Henry VIII of England has better luck producing sons and grandsons.

fights Denmark at some unspecified date

This happened OTL, e.g. the Battle of Largs, in retaking the western highlands and islands from Vikings. To attack the Faeroes, Scotland would need more manpwer and a bigger fleet. This becomes a geological ATL :: much more flat land and less mountains in south Scotland.

The Henry VIII idea sounds good-or how about no union? One King, Two Kingdoms? With England and Scotland allied so they don't fight anymore but still exist seperately-ok unlikely! I think for it to work though England and Scotland must be allied

Perhaps a Napoleonic War situation could evolve where whilst the English fleet focuses on protecting the Channel and Med (still with a Trafalgar type battle), the Royal Scottish Navy (possibly with some English support) deals with the Baltic. We still end up with a Battle of Copenhagen and as a follow on to that the Scots decide to start seizing Icleand, Faeroes, etc. they might not need numbers, just a few decent men. Assume that Thomas Chochrane is around and in the service of his native Scotland and you have a first rate naval officer who is very good at doing a lot of damage with a handful of men and ships. Give him a small sqaudron of warships, a couple of regiments of foot, maybe a regiment of dragoons and some artilley and before you know it Iceland and the Faeroes are gone and the Danes are lookign very worried-OTL he was pretty outrageous in his tactics and did a lot of damage to France in Spain and did the same to the Sapnish when serving in the various South American Wars of Independence.

[Redbeard]

PoD1:

Write a letter to the Danish Government saying that the Scottish Government would be interested in taking over mentioned islands. You will immediately recieve an answer that we'll give you 1000£ if taking over right away.

PoD 2:

Let them go like the Shetland Islands did. The Danish King needed money (for a dowry I believe) and pawned the Shetlands for a loan. He just never has paid back the loan. Now if you could get someone to send us money for taking over those God forsaken islands - that would be the deal of the millenium! You might expect a follow-up asking if you would be interested in some other islands too (special price for you!).

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

[Grey Wolf]

James IV had a large and powerful fleet, which is something usually overlooked. He also dealt with the last of the Hebridean claimants (sons of the last formal Lord of the Isles IIRC). Of course, he also invaded England and got himself and his entire nobility wiped out at Flodden, which is something of a negative point on his reign.

But, perhaps if we look at a different dynamic between himself and England ? Whilst having Edward IV live and Edward V inherit as an adult would provide this, it would also alter a lot about James so that we may well be making false assumptions. Therefore, one might go on a derivation of the Henry VIII has children idea, but instead of Henry lets have Arthur living, marrying Katherine of Aragon and producing male heirs.

Arthur's foreign policy is going to be different from Henry's in ways one cannot immediately fathom. For a start he has both a son and heir, and a brother (what was Henry duke of ?) who may well make a marriage of his own which produces heirs. The dynasty will be safe.

What sort of person was Arthur in comparison to Henry ? If the foreign policy dynamics differ substantially, and there is no Flodden, then how will James IV's Scotland relate itself to England ?

Maybe one could move on from there ?

Grey Wolf

[ljofa]

My question is - what the hell were you eating before you went to bed to produce that weird-ass kind of dream?